Finishes

[dogcatcher]

I found all of this info on various woodworking sites and some technical sites.  As to the accuracy I have to say in my opinion that what was written was the opinion of the woodworker nothing was based on scientific testing.  The technical sites were manufacturers and in my pennies worth of opinion were biased.
 
Lacquer, not as durable as polyurethane but is easier and quicker to use.  Produces the best shine in the least amount of time.  Easy to apply, can be dipped or sprayed by the home craftsman.  Or even brushed on, fast drying and ready for subsequent coats fairly quick.
 
Varnish, an old tried and true method of wood protection, not that durable and with age has a tendency to yellow and crack or spackle.  Brush or spray on is the preferred methods, takes longer to dry than lacquer or poly.  Need more time between coats.
 
Polyurethane, the most durable of the finishes, a little more work to apply.  Best method to apply is by using the wipe on poly, easily applied using cloth or even paper towel applicators..  One can apply several coats in a days time, dries pretty quick and is ready to apply another coat in a couple of hours.
 
Oils, useless in the pure form as they do not provide any protection for the wood and do not stop or slow the absorption of humidity and water, woods worst enemy.  The common oils, teak, tung and Danish or not pure oils and contain resins, varnishes or other compounds.  These additives are what protect the wood, not the oil.  Danish will darken the wood more than teak or tung, teak tends to dry faster than tung.  Teak is also less finicky than tung oil.
 
Wipe on poly can be made with clear gloss polyurethane diluted  with mineral spirits.  Clear gloss should be used because manufactures use additives to create the semi gloss and they tend to settle in the mixture causing more problems than solutions.  Mix ratios were found for poly/thinner of 50/50 to 70/30, as to which ratio is best, that is up to the individual to determine for their own use.

Marvin

[VECtor Calls]

Thanks for the info Marvin.  I'm going to end up with a poly/thinner mix I think.  I wish I could keep the quick dry time of laquer though!

Parker

[VECtor Calls]

One more question Marvin.  Can your first coat/coats be with laquer and your final quote with poly, or do they react with eachother?   ???

Parker

[dogcatcher]

I haven't used lacquer in quite a long time.  I know that some of the finishes cannot be mixed, I don't remember which ones that reacted when used over another.  Even if lacquer was the ideal finish, the odor would keep me from using it.  Using it in a well ventilated area is out of the question.  If outdoors, you have the dust to contend with, in the shop even with windows and doors open you have all the wood dust to deal with, that leaves no place for me to use it.  Alternative is a "finish room", that expense is out of the question.

I am a finish addict, I have to try them, I have all kinds of opened cans of every finish known to man.  I keep trying to find that easy and fast finish, I know it doesn't exist, but somehow I always fall for some new idea as to a good finish.   The same goes for waxes, I have to try them all.  But in the end I always come back to my polyurethane.  There are exceptions, like the Minwax Antique Oil, a time consuming smelly varnish concoction that does a real nice finish, I use it on some of my special projects.  Is it better or worth the extra effort?  In my opinion no, but I still use it.

From the woodworking sites poly seems to always win out if not by quality of the finish then by the number of users.  May not be wipe on, but it is polyurethane that comes out as being the toughest and overall easiest to use.

Marvin

[Braz]

Marvin, thanks for all the information. I am definately going to be trying some of the poly.

[VECtor Calls]

This is seriously good stuff Marvin.  No bull, just a good, clean answer. 

THANK YOU for the help!   ;)

Parker

[dogcatcher]

Parker, I just read a thread on IAP about poly.  Seems that the penturners don't think that poly can withstand daily use, considering sweaty palms and wear and tear.  I think they are a little biased for their CA BLO finish, which is impossible for using on calls if you seal it inside and out.  Also all of their scientific debate is based on "I think" and that doesn't hold any water for me. 

They also said that poly acrylic which is water based would be better that poly, which to me is a wrong assumption since a water based finish is not as strong.  If it is water based, then either the coats set on top of each other and are subject to chipping like paint.   Or it dissolves the top layer and that would mean that if it has a constant exposure to water it would dissolve the finish.

So you can take this for what it is worth, but I will stick with my poly as my primary finish.  So far I consider it better than all of the alternatives both in durability and ease of use.

Marvin

[Braz]

I got a call that I did a wipe on with poly last night. Haven't seen it yet this morning, but assuming I will hit it lightly with 0000 Steel Wool, then another coat or two. Then I'll see what it looks like.

When you talk about dipping, just exactly how do you go about that? I've never dipped, not even that nasty tobacco my boys use.  ;D How do you get the call into the stuff and then hang it?

[dogcatcher]

I get extra empty cans at the paint store, mix my poly with thinner and just stick them in the mix and take them out.  Let them sit for a few minutes and them wipe them off.  You don't get much of a coverage but 3 or more times and it adds up.  Sometimes I only dip once and then use the wipe on poly for the remaining coats.  I use a drying rack that is just pieces of 2x6 and 2x8 that has dowels in them.  The poly mix dries pretty fast so when I feel it is time I will wipe them again so that there is not globs at the bottom.  I rarely worry much about the first couple of coats, those are easy to clean up the runs and drips.  When I get to the last coats I do the steel wool and then work on a good final coat.

The extra empty paint cans come in quarts and gallon sizes, cost around a $1 plus or minus depending where I get them.  They are clean brand new cans and for the cost when they get messed lids and rims I just trash them.  Try not to get the ones with plastic walls, they suck when you try to close them, the sides want to cave in on you.  Another option is empty peanut butter jars, like Skippy, large mouth plastic jars work real good.  When my son was young he could kill a jar of peanut butter in a week so I always had plenty of them.  When he moved out I lost those free jars.

Marvin

[bp179]

Thanks for all the info on finishes,Where would a friction polish such as huts crystal coat fit in to that.  thanks          Bryan

[dogcatcher]

I don't consider the friction polishes a very good finish, they provide a quick shine but no real protection of the wood from moisture or  humidity.  I know some callmakers that use nothing but friction polish, that is their choice, but I consider it a poor choice of finish.

Marvin

[bp179]

Marvin your a wealth of info on finishes all your help is appreciated.Do you ever use tru-oil,I am assuming it has shellac or something like that in it but i'm not sure, I have been told it is very durable and that deet has no ill effects in the finish do you know if any of this is true? Thanks
                          Bryan

[dogcatcher]

I have used True Oil, great finish, just takes a long time to get all the coats on.  Minwax Antique Oil is the same, great finish, but way to much time involved.  From what I read True Oil and Antique oil are almost identical.

Marvin

[Al_at_THO Game Calls]

I have used tru Oil on several calls that i thought were worth the time and effort.  It is a wonderful finish if done correctly, but it can take up to a month to finish a call this way.  In some cases, it is worth the time and effort.

As for the rest of the discussion on finishes, while interesting, most of it applies to our domestic woods.  A great many exotic woods have a natural oil content that makes them very suitable for call making.   I think, and this is based on my experiance in real world situations hunting in a climate that goes from blazing hot to frigid cold, from dry to humid and everything inbetween, A lot of the exotic woods benefit greatly from an oil based finish.  Many of these calls will absorb the natural oils in your hands, and take on a wonderful natual patina.   I have several cocobolo calls that I hunt with regulary, and some made out of Kingwood and Bocote that really have no finish on them anymore, yet they are prettier today than when i made them. 

But like anything, we need to remind our customers that they have to play their part too.  Would you take an expensive rifle out hunting in the rain and come home and not wipe it down?   Or never clean it?  Calls, especially custom calls require at least a modicum of maintance to keep them looking good. 

If a customer does not want to do this, then he would be better off with a plastic call. 

The discussion about finishing fine wood products has to be tempered by the type of wood the product is made of and it's end use.

Al @ THO

[Braz]

Let me jump in here on the Tru-Oil. While I have not in the past used it on calls, I have used it on stocks. As Al said, it takes a lot of time and patience. You hand rub in a small amount, very well, and let dry at least a full day. Then you do it again. And again, And again..... In between coats you may want to hit very lightly with a bit of 1200 grit sandpaper just to smooth things out a bit. I don't use steel wool on the gun stocks, as I don't like the idea of having small bits of metal left in/on the stock. And it can take weeks to get the stock where you want it. The last one I did I put, if I remember correctly, 12 coats on the stock. But it looked like a weatherby high gloss stock when finished.

I recently acquired a blank of birds eye maple, that was destined to be a gun stock. But in the drying process small hairline cracks started appearing, which made it useless for a gun stock. But for cutting to blanks, Oh Baby! The piece was 3" thick, 9" wide and about 40" long. It is producing some wonderful birds eye stuff. Anyway, I am making some calls from it for the guy I got the wood from. That's a good trade, don't you think? I am doing them in Tru-Oil. I thought that was only appropriate. They are turning out quite nice. Got two calls turned so far and have 4 coats on so far. Will put maybe another 4 on and then decide how many more, if any.