Author Topic: Starting Equipment  (Read 606 times)

Offline SCooper

  • New Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Starting Equipment
« on: January 04, 2018, 05:09:24 PM »
Hey guys,

Before I get started I want to say that I've used the search function and I've used Google and I think I've gotten a ton of information from both!

I've tried to make a few calls using some very primitive (whittling) tools with little success.. more of a time waster in the off season than anything.. Thought maybe firing up the Dremel would make the process a little more fruitful.. not the case. So after trying to avoid buying a lathe for so long.. I've given up and I'm gonna dive in. That being said, I'm decently handy in other areas of woodworking, however, I've never even laid eyes on lathe let alone operated one. Some of the terminology for accessories I'd need to turn calls is completely foreign to me.. but I've done my best to try and come up with a list of things I'd need to get started.

I've decided on the Turncrafter Commander 10VS based on a lot of help from this forum. I've decided I'm going to drill on the lathe rather then invest in a drill press. I intend on focusing on duck calls primarily but also plan to make some deer and goose calls down the line.

This is list I've compiled along with a few questions.. If anyone has any suggestions on other items or if I've gotten something completely wrong please chime in!

Lathe
4 jaw chuck (This would be used to hold piece for drilling if I understand correctly..)
drill chuck (5/8" capacity not sure what size a deer or goose call would require so I may go bigger..)
5/8" bit (barrel)
1/4" bit (insert)
tapering bit (for exhaust)
5/8" mandrel
1/4" mandrel (Is this the best option to turn the insert? Is there an option I can use for both the barrel and insert?)
Collet chuck for the mandrels (This is something I wasn't sure I understood correctly.. is this required?)
Turning Tools
Finishing supplies
Toneboard Jig
Cork
Reeds
I have a 10" band saw already.

Please if someone uses this method and has suggestions on which items I should get or add to this list or where I should get them from let me know! I'm all ears.

Thanks!



Offline FDR

  • Global Mentor & Moderator
  • Custom Call Maker
  • *
  • Posts: 1245
  • Age: 74
  • Location: Huntsville, Alabama
Re: Starting Equipment
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2018, 05:54:33 PM »
Let me see if I can help on the need for a collet chuck: after you drilled your barrel using  your 4 jaw chuck you have to hold the blank another way to turn the outside profile of the barrel. You do that by inserting your 5/8 mandrel into your blank and tightening the mandrel. Now that you have the barrel blank mounted on the mandrel how do you hold the mandrel on the lathe?  You can hold the mandrel with the 4 jaw chuck (with the correct jaws) but will it run true ? Not likely!  Enter the collet chuck. Properly mounted the collet chuck will hold your mandrel so that the mandrel runs true with the centerline of the lathe spindle. Now your barrel, when turned, will be true (concentric) with the bore hole in the barrel. Most of us use the collet chuck from Penn State Industries. It comes standard with several size collets included. The trick to using the collet chuck is to first mount the selected collet into the chuck face nut and then insert the collet with nut into the collet body and tighten.

Fred
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 09:12:07 AM by FDR »
Fred Roe
Reelfoot, the original duck call. What's on your lanyard?

Offline SCooper

  • New Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: Starting Equipment
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2018, 06:26:41 PM »
Thanks Fred! This was essentially what I wasn't grasping, the need for a collet chuck with a 4 jaw chuck, but you cleared it up.

Is the insert typically turned on a mandrel? or do you turn the tenon to 5/8" then flip the insert and shape the exhaust using the 4 jaw chuck? From what I understand the insert isn't completely drilled through.

One more question, assuming I've gotten the idea for everything above, how does a live center play into what I've outlined?

EDIT: Just when I think I've figured something out.. is there any reason this mandrel               < https://www.pennstateind.com/store/PKM-BL.html > couldn't attach directly to the headstock without the use of a collet chuck?
« Last Edit: January 04, 2018, 06:50:26 PM by SCooper »

Offline B.Meuchel

  • Custom Call Maker
  • ****
  • Posts: 62
  • Location: Greeley CO
Re: Starting Equipment
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2018, 09:43:30 PM »
You could also use the collet chuck to hold your insert once you have turned the 5/8” tenon. It would hold it very well to finish the exhaust end, and save money by not getting the 1/4” mandrel.

I would definitely get a 60 degree live center. They really sturdy up your work piece, use it anytime you are not working on the “face”.

Offline VECtor Calls

  • Global Mentor & Moderator
  • Custom Call Maker
  • *
  • Posts: 11264
  • Location: Whitetail Country
  • VECtor Custom Calls
    • VECtor Custom Calls
Re: Starting Equipment
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2018, 04:07:02 AM »
I am going to jump in on a couple things in the middle of the night while the dog takes a leak.

If you are talking about that pen mandrel being used for call making, skip it. Don't think twice about a pen mandrel for call making. If you are willing to buy all these other tools, it would be the weakest tool in your shop for making calls.

On your drill bits, look to buy Silver and Deming type bits, also called reduced shank bits. They will allow you to drill 5/8", 3/4", and 7/8" for example.....with a 1/2" shank on the bit.

I like having the collet chuck and using it to hold my straight shank mandrels.

You are getting a good list going. Keep asking questions and tinkering!
Pass on the tradition. A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle.

VECtor Custom Calls
Deer Grunt Calls Turkey Calls and Other Custom Game Calls

Offline FDR

  • Global Mentor & Moderator
  • Custom Call Maker
  • *
  • Posts: 1245
  • Age: 74
  • Location: Huntsville, Alabama
Re: Starting Equipment
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2018, 09:37:19 AM »
Thanks Fred! This was essentially what I wasn't grasping, the need for a collet chuck with a 4 jaw chuck, but you cleared it up.

Is the insert typically turned on a mandrel? or do you turn the tenon to 5/8" then flip the insert and shape the exhaust using the 4 jaw chuck? From what I understand the insert isn't completely drilled through.

One more question, assuming I've gotten the idea for everything above, how does a live center play into what I've outlined?

EDIT: Just when I think I've figured something out.. is there any reason this mandrel               < https://www.pennstateind.com/store/PKM-BL.html > couldn't attach directly to the headstock without the use of a collet chuck?

I use the collet chuck to turn the insert. Turn the 5/8 part then mount the 5/8 part in the collet chuck and finish turning the remainder of the outside to shape. The exhaust is shaped and the tone channel is drilled using the face of the exhaust as a reference for the depth measurement. I also use a drill stop(a little metal ring that fits around the drill and locks with a screw) to make sure the tone channel depth is the same each time. now you can go to your jig and finish the insert.
A live center, mounted the lathe tailstock, is used to support the remaining end of both the barrel blank and the insert blank as they are turned. The live center helps to distribute the forces generated from turning to both the head stock and tail stock of the lathe. You get a better turning by supporting both ends when rough turning. An example would be turning a square barrel blank to round.
Tip: the easy way to make an insert is to start with a dowel. Maple makes a good insert and maple dowels are easy to find. I get mine from Woodcraft.
You might find my tutorial helpful. Although the type call is different many of the early steps are the same and there are several pictures in the tutorial of the steps in making a call.

http://www.thogamecallsforums.com/tutorials/Tutorial_How_to_Build_the_Reelfoot_Duck_Call_July_2012_-1.pdf


Fred
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 09:46:22 AM by FDR »
Fred Roe
Reelfoot, the original duck call. What's on your lanyard?

Offline SCooper

  • New Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: Starting Equipment
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2018, 02:29:53 PM »
Thanks again to everyone for the help so far! I guess the best way for me make sure I understand what I'll be doing and the tools I'll need is to outline the process I intend to use and the tools I'll be using to do it!

Using the 4 jaw chuck and drill chuck with 5/8" bit, I'll bore out the blank on the lathe. From there, I'll install the collet chuck on the headstock along with a 5/8" mandrel and a 60 degree live center on tailstock and turn the barrel.

**Would it be better to do this with the piece square or should I turn it round first?

Next Ill use the 4 jaw chuck to hold the insert blank and turn the tenon to 5/8" Swap over to the collet chuck (or maybe leave 4 jaw) and rotate the piece. Here I'll turn the insert and shape the exhaust.

** Is using a live center here in the tailstock a good idea? It would be on the center of the exhaust and I imagine it would create a dimple in the end, which is going to drilled out anyways.

Next I'll install the drill chuck in the tailstock and drill out the insert using 1/4" bit. Before doing this I'll place the insert in the jig and mark approximately 1/2" away from the end of the toneboard on the piece. I'll mark the drill bit for proper depth and bore the insert.

From here I'll taper the exhaust slightly and finish both pieces. Install the reed and cork and hopefully go quack!

I know this whole thread has been wordy but I appreciate the help!

Offline B.Meuchel

  • Custom Call Maker
  • ****
  • Posts: 62
  • Location: Greeley CO
Re: Starting Equipment
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2018, 04:31:40 PM »
You can turn a blank from square to round on your mandrel.

Instead of using a jawed chuck to make your 5/8” tenon you could just use a spur drive and live center. This method is called “ between centers”, just to help you with some of the confusing terminology. Then just go straight to the collet chuck.

I would use the live center as much as you can. I only remove mine to work on the end of my piece.

Another thing to look at with your four jaw chuck is jaws made for drilling blanks. Instead of four jaws you only install two but they have a groove in them. The benefit of these is if your blank is not perfectly square it will still hold good and give a good center for drilling. Penn State Ind’s basic four jaw chuck comes with a set if you are interested.

Offline B.Meuchel

  • Custom Call Maker
  • ****
  • Posts: 62
  • Location: Greeley CO
Re: Starting Equipment
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2018, 01:16:45 PM »
Another thing I would recommend if you don’t have much experience with a lathe is the book “Woodturning, A Foundation Course” by Keith Rowley. Woodcraft has it for $20, and I’m sure Amazon has it too. This book goes into great detail on lathe safety and how to use your tools properly.

Offline Evan @ CBC Custom Calls

  • Custom Call Maker
  • ****
  • Posts: 64
Re: Starting Equipment
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2018, 05:45:28 PM »
Speaking of safety, don't forget a face shield and respirator.  It's all fun till a workpiece comes out of those jaws and leaves a golf ball on your forehead