Author Topic: Need Help Picking out Tools  (Read 3358 times)

Offline WEllis

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Need Help Picking out Tools
« on: April 11, 2017, 04:59:52 AM »
The title says it all, I need help picking out the tools I need for duck call making.

Here is my dilemma, I have done the research, and I know mostly what I need, however, I do not know what brands and/or models for the specific tools that I want to get. I do, however, know this much: I'm going to get a Jet 1221 variable speed lathe. Beyond that, I'm not sure what brands or models of the specific tools I need. Could you guys give me some pointers on the specifics?

I have been working my but off and saving for a while, and intend to move into call making. I'm a long time wood worker, however, I worked in a shop that was not my own, so I am lacking in the tools. I am also a lifetime duck hunter, duck call collector, and, in the past, a competitive caller. So, I've decided I want to combine three of my passions. I have been toying with this idea for a few years now, and I finally decided to go all in on it.

I'm a working man, so I need to spend my money wisely. My budget is $2,000, possibly a few hundred more depending on the suggestions you guys give. Already, $700 of that is going on the lathe. I need help deciding where I should heavily invest, and where I can get the bargain deals. I would also like to know which models you guys use? Its a bit overwhelming trying to decide, and I am hoping that you guys, that have been through it all before, can guide me towards the tools that offer the most bang for my buck.

If I am missing anything, please let me know.

I was a cabinet maker for years. I worked in a high production woodshop making doors and miter doors. I've never turned wood, and don't really have the tools.

Also, I am actively looking on craigslist for quality craftsman cast iron drill presses and band saw.

I want to start with quality and not regret getting crap tools down the road.

Thank you

1) Lathe:
I decided to go with the Jet 1221 due to multiple call makers suggesting this model.

Should I eliminate the drill press and use the lathe for drilling my holes, or is it money well spent?

2) Drill Press:
Does a basic Ryobi or Wen drill press work? If so, do I need an 8, 10, or 12 in? Does anyone have specific brands and models, under $200 they would suggest? Is the drill press something you should heavily invest in? Which do you guys suggest?
Actively looking on Craigslist for a quality old cast drill press by craftsman or the like.

3) Band Saw:
Again, does a Ryobi, Wen, or General International fit the bill? Is this an item I should invest in heavily? Which do you guys suggest?
Actively looking on Craigslist for a quality old cast band saw by craftsman or the like.

4) Drill Bits:
I was told 1/4 and 5/8 bits, but make sure to get quality. Which ones do you guys suggest?
Also a stepped drill bit? If so, which ones and what size?

5) Mandrel:
Does an expanding mandrel from rocker work? I don't know the size to get, 5/8? Which do you guys suggest?

6) Collet Chuck:
I don't know where to begin. Which do you guys suggest?
How about this one? https://www.pennstateind.com/store/LCDOWEL.html
7) Drill Chuck:
I don't know where to begin. Which do you guys suggest?

8) 4 Jaw Chuck:
I don't know where to begin. Which do you guys suggest?
Is this one quality https://www.pennstateind.com/store/CSC3000C.html?prodpage=1CS

8) Cutting Tools:
I know I need to invest here. Should I start out with HSS or Carbide? Are the Rockler Carbide tools a good bet? If not, what brands. Also, several makers told me they pretty much only use the following: cutters round nose scraper parting tool and a round carbide tip. Do I only need 3, or should I get a whole set? Which do you guys suggest?

9)Do I need a low speed grinder for sharpening, as other posts have suggested? If so, what kind?

10) What kind of Files to shape the tone board?

Thats my list, If I am missing anything, please let me know.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2017, 05:36:04 AM by WParkerEllis »

Offline FDR

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Re: Need Help Picking out Tools
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2017, 11:16:12 AM »
That is a long list! Lets see if we can narrow it down some:

Lathe: a Jet 1221 is a great choice. I run one. Bought 3 before I found it.
Collet chuck: the Penn state model you show is the one most of us use.
Mandrel: get those from Webfoot, (Webfoot custom calls).  5/8inch if you intend to make Arkansas type calls. Get the straight one and use your collet chuck to hold it.
4 jaw chuck: I only use mine for drilling call blanks on the lathe. If you have a drill press you don't need one.
band saw: a 14 inch saw is all you need. Look at Grizzly also.
Drill bits: I get mine from MSC formally Enco. You can also buy bits that fit directly into the tailstock of the lathe. I use those for drilling barrels on the lathe.
Cutting tools: you need to understand turning before you invest in expensive tools. I started with a set of HSS tools from Harbor Freight. I still use the 1 inch roughing gouge! Around $50 for the set. About the price of a single Sorby or Henry Taylor tool. Check "Packard Woodworking" for the good stuff. You will also need a 1/16 inch cutoff tool which is not included in the set.
Sharpening: I use a belt sander because I have one. Others use a slow speed grinder and a Wolverine jig set. Also look at Grizzly.

Go to the tutorials section and read everything you can on call making! Lot of ways to make a call.

Fred

Fred
« Last Edit: April 12, 2017, 01:37:58 PM by FDR »
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Offline Michael @ RK Custom Calls

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Re: Need Help Picking out Tools
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2017, 04:15:16 PM »
I'm new to call making, but I can share some of my beginner problems I ran into and hopefully help you avoid them!

If it were me, I would invest in a drill press.  I've had trouble getting reliable holes while drilling on the lathe (likely mostly due to operator error), but a drill press will eliminate that if you set it up properly and use a vise to hold the blank.  That being said, I would invest in a floor drill press that has at least 3" of travel.  I bought a cheap one from Harbor Freight with 2" travel, requiring me to adjust the table in order to drill completely through a blank (and now we're back to implementing a degree of variability in your holes).

As mentioned, I like my PSI collet chuck and Webfoot mandrel.

I use a Baracuda 4 jaw and like it.  Nothing fancy, but it comes with different jaws to hold different size pieces.

I am just starting to make my own inserts, but I have a scroll saw I'm going to try using before looking at band saws, so I can't help there.

I use HSS chisels that came from my late grandfather.  Not the greatest tools, and need to be sharpened, but sentimental value means alot to me.  Obviously tool material is important to some degree, but I'd say regardless of what kind of tools you get, making sure they stay sharp is the main thing.  I don't sharpen mine personally, I take them in to get professionally sharpened.  I've just never done much of that type stuff so I avoid it.

Hope I helped somewhat!
“When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy” - General James "Mad Dog" Mattis

Offline WEllis

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Re: Need Help Picking out Tools
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2017, 07:08:57 PM »
That is a long list! Lets see if we can narrow it down some:

Lathe: a Jet 1221 is a great choice. I run one. Bought 3 before I found it.
Collet chuck: the Penn state model you show is the one most of us use.
Mandrel: get those from Webfoot, (Webfoot custom calls).  5/8inch if you intend to make Arkansas type calls. Get the straight one and use your collet chuck to hold it.
4 jaw chuck: I only use mine for drilling call blanks on the lathe. If you have a drill press you don't need one.
band saw: a 14 inch saw is all you need. Look at Grizzly also.
Drill bits: I get mine from MSI formally Enco. You can also buy bits that fit directly into the tailstock of the lathe. I use those for drilling barrels on the lathe.
Cutting tools: you need to understand turning before you invest in expensive tools. I started with a set of HSS tools from Harbor Freight. I still use the 1 inch roughing gouge! Around $50 for the set. About the price of a single Sorby or Henry Taylor tool. Check "Packard Woodworking" for the good stuff. You will also need a 1/16 inch cutoff tool which is not included in the set.
Sharpening: I use a belt sander because I have one. Others use a slow speed grinder and a Wolverine jig set. Also look at Grizzly.

Go to the tutorials section and read everything you can on call making! Lot of ways to make a call.

Fred

Fred

Fred,

Thank you, Sir, that was excellent advice. I just bought a house, and really want to fill up my workshop. I can get a lot of use out of several of these items.

What cutting tools do you usually use? Do you have certain ones that you find yourself using more than others? Would you suggest buying an entire set, or just certain individual cutters?

What woods would you suggest starting out on? Anything in particular that is easy to turn and cheaper?

I appreciate your response

Offline WEllis

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Re: Need Help Picking out Tools
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2017, 09:24:16 PM »
I'm new to call making, but I can share some of my beginner problems I ran into and hopefully help you avoid them!

If it were me, I would invest in a drill press.  I've had trouble getting reliable holes while drilling on the lathe (likely mostly due to operator error), but a drill press will eliminate that if you set it up properly and use a vise to hold the blank.  That being said, I would invest in a floor drill press that has at least 3" of travel.  I bought a cheap one from Harbor Freight with 2" travel, requiring me to adjust the table in order to drill completely through a blank (and now we're back to implementing a degree of variability in your holes).

As mentioned, I like my PSI collet chuck and Webfoot mandrel.

I use a Baracuda 4 jaw and like it.  Nothing fancy, but it comes with different jaws to hold different size pieces.

I am just starting to make my own inserts, but I have a scroll saw I'm going to try using before looking at band saws, so I can't help there.

I use HSS chisels that came from my late grandfather.  Not the greatest tools, and need to be sharpened, but sentimental value means alot to me.  Obviously tool material is important to some degree, but I'd say regardless of what kind of tools you get, making sure they stay sharp is the main thing.  I don't sharpen mine personally, I take them in to get professionally sharpened.  I've just never done much of that type stuff so I avoid it.

Hope I helped somewhat!

Gotta love the heirlooms. Definitely stick with your grandads tools.

Thanks for the advice concerning the press. I don't like the idea of having an offset borehole, for aesthetic reasons.

Offline VECtor Calls

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Re: Need Help Picking out Tools
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2017, 10:34:31 PM »
Lathe drilling is actually more accurate to center your work and get a clean drill.
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Offline VECtor Calls

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Re: Need Help Picking out Tools
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2017, 10:36:40 PM »
You can probably punt the drill press until you find a deal. Drill on the lathe.

PSI for the collet chuck and 4 jaw chuck. I use the utility 4 jaw chuck all the time with only a few issues of it trying to come loose.  I like it because it comes a bunch of jaw sets.  Other guys like to spend the coin on the baracuda 4 jaw.

Webfoot can get you lined out with mandrels. Do not skimp on buying an off brand outside of an actual call maker. He may also have drill bits in stock. I buy my drill bits from McMaster Carr or Rockler.

Turning tools, I really like the carbides. The set from Rockler will do. HSS, buy I cheaper set from PSI and get used to them. Slow grinder to sharpen. Carbides, you have to buy new inserts as you go, and they are not cheap.  Arizona Carbide is who most folks buy them from.

Jacobs/drill chuck from PSI. I like keyless. You may want two to keep from bit changes all the time.





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Offline VECtor Calls

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Re: Need Help Picking out Tools
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2017, 10:39:13 PM »
I also suggest taking a look at the state by state threads and seeing who is close to you and willing to help you out. You can learn a lot by visiting fellow call makers at their shops. What works for them, what doesn't, what may not have been an effective dollar spent in the beginning, etc.
Pass on the tradition. A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle.

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Offline Michael @ RK Custom Calls

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Re: Need Help Picking out Tools
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2017, 09:03:31 AM »
Lathe drilling is actually more accurate to center your work and get a clean drill.

Like I said, most likely operator error!   :oops:
“When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy” - General James "Mad Dog" Mattis

Offline VECtor Calls

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Re: Need Help Picking out Tools
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2017, 10:28:59 AM »
Lathe drilling is actually more accurate to center your work and get a clean drill.

Like I said, most likely operator error!   :oops:

Slower speed, make a spot it your wood for your drill bit to center on (using a brad point helps with this too), and lock your tailstock in place and use your quill travel in the tailstock to drill.

There are other ways to do it to get a hole bored, but that is how I am accurate.

Also, just like with a press, clean your chips out often and take your time.

I DO drill on my press a lot, but I don't think its a must for getting a shop started.

3" quill travel on a press is a must, I like it to be 3 1/2" or over. That makes for a pretty big press though. We have several drill press discussions here in the forum.
Pass on the tradition. A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle.

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Offline FDR

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Re: Need Help Picking out Tools
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2017, 01:37:06 PM »
I started with this set:
http://www.harborfreight.com/professional-high-speed-steel-wood-lathe-chisel-set-8-pc-69723.html You can learn to turn with these then add special tools as you need them. Don't forget the 20% off coupons!
I would add a 1/16 cutoff tool and a center drill set to help start your barrel holes on the lathe. You drill the hole, transfer the blank to the mandrel then turn the outside round relative to the hole/mandrel. Now your hole is centered in your barrel.
http://www.harborfreight.com/center-drill-countersink-set-5-pc-60381.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/1-2-half-inch-mt2-mini-lathe-drill-chuck-42340.html

There are also some video instruction on utube.

Fred
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Offline Michael @ RK Custom Calls

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Re: Need Help Picking out Tools
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2017, 04:28:31 PM »
Lathe drilling is actually more accurate to center your work and get a clean drill.

Like I said, most likely operator error!   :oops:

Slower speed, make a spot it your wood for your drill bit to center on (using a brad point helps with this too), and lock your tailstock in place and use your quill travel in the tailstock to drill.

There are other ways to do it to get a hole bored, but that is how I am accurate.

Also, just like with a press, clean your chips out often and take your time.

I DO drill on my press a lot, but I don't think its a must for getting a shop started.

3" quill travel on a press is a must, I like it to be 3 1/2" or over. That makes for a pretty big press though. We have several drill press discussions here in the forum.

I sent you a PM so I don't hijack this thread anymore!  :hijack:
“When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy” - General James "Mad Dog" Mattis

Offline WEllis

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Re: Need Help Picking out Tools
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2017, 05:50:07 PM »
I started with this set:
http://www.harborfreight.com/professional-high-speed-steel-wood-lathe-chisel-set-8-pc-69723.html You can learn to turn with these then add special tools as you need them. Don't forget the 20% off coupons!
I would add a 1/16 cutoff tool and a center drill set to help start your barrel holes on the lathe. You drill the hole, transfer the blank to the mandrel then turn the outside round relative to the hole/mandrel. Now your hole is centered in your barrel.
http://www.harborfreight.com/center-drill-countersink-set-5-pc-60381.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/1-2-half-inch-mt2-mini-lathe-drill-chuck-42340.html

There are also some video instruction on utube.

Fred

Thank you Sir!

Offline WEllis

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Re: Need Help Picking out Tools
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2017, 06:23:33 PM »
Concerning a band saw, what is the ideal size, 12 inch?

Offline FDR

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Re: Need Help Picking out Tools
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2017, 07:49:50 PM »
Concerning a band saw, what is the ideal size, 12 inch?

I would look at a 14 inch. Grizzly has some nice ones as does Rikon.
Fred Roe
Reelfoot, the original duck call. What's on your lanyard?