Deer Guts vs. Echo Inserts

[Jared at Woodruff Outdoors]

First off, I am not trying to start any type of debate.  This is strictly a curiosity question. 

I obviously know how people view duck call inserts stuffed into a barrel.  However, as I get ready to start making some deer grunts, most threads I find talk about buying the deer grunt inserts instead of making your own.  Is this a cost saving thing, are they very difficult to make, or is there just not as much interest in building your own guts?  I am not opposed to buying premade deer grunt guts, as i will likely not make very many, but I also loved designing my own tone board for my duck calls and still tweak the sound all the time.  What are your thoughts on this topic?  Is it worth it to pursue my own guts?

Thanks for your replies,
Jared Woodruff   

[LagrueCustomCalls]

Only deergrunts I ever made were for a certain large maker years ago. I don't make grunts in my own shop, so my comments are purely my own mental math and speculation...

As for the cost savings thing - if I were to make some deer grunts and did not figure on making them in any volume, I'd freehand the toneboards, make a homemade jig like I did when I started out, or I'd buy some molded guts. The cost of a machined jig does take quite a while to pay out in the true business sense of things.

Personally, I've never made a call with molded guts. No such thing was available when I started out, so it wasn't an option. I designed and had my jig made long before people like Wade were around and (like you mentioned) I enjoyed the process of getting the design right. So, there is that 'intangible' benefit that does not add up in the cost-benefit ratio of doing it yourself and enjoying the process.

Might make sense to buy some guts to work your overall call architecture out, then begin working on your own guts with a home made jig, and if you feel the need, go get a full on machined jig made by Wade, or at North Central Tool.

[James Strickland]

Jared... The basic rule of thumb here is that if you even look at a pre-made gut you're not a real call maker!!  LOL

Sorry, just messing with you.

I use the guts that Al sells for my deer grunts.  I don't make very many and honestly, I'm not a deer hunter.  So, I had no clue what a good grunt should sound like.  The vast majority of the grunts I've made have either been given a way to family and friends or donated to charities.  For some reason, there doesn't seem to be as much noise about people using pre-made guts for any species of call (deer, goose, predator, etc.) as there does for duck calls.  Not sure why. 

But, making my own guts for deer grunts is on my list of things to learn to do.  But, that list is pretty long so not sure when I'll get it done.  I doubt I'll ever get a hardened jig made though.  Just doesn't seem to be as much demand for deer grunts to justify the cost.  I'll likely make myself a wooden jig like I did when I was learning duck calls. 

To answer your question of whether it's worth it to pursue making your own guts, I think that depends on what your goals are.  From a purely business perspective, does your anticipated revenue/profits from grunts offset the cost of time and money required to develop your own guts? (compared to revenue/profits from using pre-made guts)  From a craftsmanship perspective, are you interested enough in deer grunts to create your own guts/jig regardless of whether you'd ever recoup that cost from selling grunts?  Just being able to say the call is 100% your own design does set you apart from most other grunt makers.

Those are just my thoughts.  But, I'm not one who stresses too much when I see a poly Echo insert in a handmade barrel.  Everyone starts somewhere and everyone has different goals.

[B Hoover]

Well, since I've been making quite a few lately I'll chime in.  Jared, I believe it all boils down to what each call maker chooses.  I enjoy the process of making my own deer guts out of wood.  Does that make my calls better than someone else who puts a set of molded guts in theirs... NO.  I simply enjoy making them myself.  I spent quite a bit of time with a file, sandpaper, decibel meter and chromatic meter trying to figure out what worked and what did not.  As James said, I haven't ever had anyone foaming at the mouth because my guts are handmade.  It's just not as big to deer hunters as it is to waterfowlers.  I'd say give it a shot.  You might find out it's just as enjoyable as making a duck call.  I will add that deer guts are a lot more forgiving than duck inserts.

[VECtor Calls]

Hmmm.  Trying to figure out how to put this in a few words.

Deer hunters are not as picky as duck hunters.  Deer calls have not been around as long as duck calls.

Deer hunters want a call that will call in deer, and on the custom level.....look good too.

I use plastic guts because deer calls are used VERY little in the field compared to duck calls.  Chances at ducks come multiple times in a hunt.  If a duck call messes up, you get more chances.  I am trying to give a guy a chance at a buck of a lifetime off of ONE blow in a call.  I NEED that one blow to produce correctly.  The first time.  Every time. 

So, plastic guts for me. 

If you are a picky deer hunter yourself, you will find there is still quite a lot to get deer grunts to tune up just like you want so you are able to get that one perfect blow the first time, every time. 

All that said, I am a deer call and turkey call maker, and even a squirrel call maker.....before I am a duck call maker.  I use Echo inserts in my duck calls I send out.  Because, I want my guys to have good, successful gear for the field.  I don't make shelf sitters. 

[B Hoover]

Maybe I wasn't clear with my comments, Vince.  I wasn't implying that deer hunters don't care about the sound or performance of a call.  Jared wanted to know if it was worth his time and effort to make his own guts.  I would encourage people to try them.  It's a great learning experience.

[stumpjumper]

No matter what call one is making......always make your own guts is my opinion.

Stump

[VECtor Calls]

B Hoover, my post was written the same time you wrote yours. What I posted has no bearing on what you posted.  I have not compared what you wrote to what I wrote.

[B Hoover]

I missed that Vince.  I think we both agree, no matter which method is used, that the call must perform first and look good second.

[Jared at Woodruff Outdoors]

Thanks for all the input guys.  I know I won't make a ton of these, because I honestly do not do much deer hunting.  This is manly for a friend that is wanting a few made up.  There will definitely not be enough to make a custom jig, but it might be fun to play with the tone board.  I will share the final product when I get around to making it!   Thanks again. 

[ken hubbard]

   Jared,
 I make my own grunt guts, but also buy them, for me it is a time issue and a financial issue, if someone wants my custom wooden guts, I charge more for them, due to the fact that you have much more time and equipment usage, IE, bandsaw blades, drill bits, Etc. IMO, Buy the guts, and do not think twice about it, there is not a history behind the grunt calls like there is on duck calls for one thing, and for another there are other variables as with every call than the toneboard, tuning and internal variations are just as or even more important.
  I do have different feelings when it comes to duck calls, but I also feel do what you are capable of for now, and learn and ENJOY yourself along the way. I have a family so I hate to admit this, but most nights I go to bed thinking about calls of some kind, and I wake up each morning thinking of calls. Whatever you do, do it for yourself!!!!!!!!!  And ENJOY whatever you do !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
   Good Huntin and Call Makin....................Ken

[Mann Lock @ Hollow Wing Calls]

Use plastics from Al if you want... I agree with the others, Deer hunters are just not as picky as duck hunters. As long as it looks good, sounds good, they are not going to scream and shout that its molded plastic guts.   

Then again, its always nice to be able to say you made the guts too.

If you dont want the look of a molded white plastic, go with the JC stuff.. Lots of people use them and get great reviews.  JC https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/57/5971/JC-Series-100-Buck-Single-Mylar-Reed-Game-Call-Kit

[Al_at_THO Game Calls]

Yeah, I carry the JC grunt and doe bleats in the store as well.

Al @ THO