Questions for those that use CA

[clintfaas]

I've been using pens as guinea pigs for learning CA and have a few questions that came up.
1) I got some thin "hot stuff" from Wood Craft.  If I get medium, do I need to stick with the same brand or will it hurt of I get different brand and use both?
2) I know it needs sanding to be slick, but does it go on smooth?  Mine feels extremely rough prior to sanding.  Think gritty.  I will be getting the viva paper towels tomorrow but have been using the little parts bags in the pen kit (at the direction of the guy at wood craft)
3) I know that micro mesh doesn't follow the same grit as sandpaper.  if I sand with 1200 paper can I just pick up with the next mm or should I use mm exclusively?
4) when I "finished" sanding, I saw what I though was tiny ridges in the CA.  However under magnification  (see below) it looks like tiny pinholes.  Is this from air bubbles?  I didn't use accelerator.  What could cause this?

Sorry for the long post and so many questions.  Trying to avoid (more) frustration by learning first.

[David @ Mad Duck Game Calls]

Brands shouldn't make a difference.  It won't go on really smooth, but try not to put it on and have it REALLY rough. You can normally sand it out but it takes longer. I am not sure what grit MM starts at but I would  quit sanding at the grit right before it, then follow up with MM.   On your first coat or two, sand then back down with 400 G sand paper followed up with 600. This will fill the grain. You can then apply the finish like normal. I don't know if the grain is actually what caused your problem, you may need to apply more coats and sand more to get them out.

[clintfaas]

Thanks, David. I was a little nervous to sand too much not wanting to cut through the CA. 

The below link shows the mm comparison.
http://content.penturners.org/library/general_reference/abrasive_chart.pdf

[Aaron at Wingerts Woodworks]

Those little pits are open grain.  The glue settles down in there so you're not hitting those spots with sandpaper.  Wet sanding with BLO is a good way to do a grain fill before laying down CA.  Just wet sand with BLO and 600 or 800 grit.  That'll make a putty/slurry which will fill the grain.  Wipe all that off and let dry.  Then you'll have a very level surface to do your CA.

Use the Viva's.  If you're getting a gritty feel you're probably keeping the applicator on the wood too long.  Two or three seconds max, then a new applicator.

It won't go on completely smooth and level and that's ok.  I start wet sanding at 1200.  Go easy so you don't sand through.  And always sand wet with water.  Keep that sandpaper puddled with water. 

Others' methods will of course vary, but you can keep that darn micro mesh!  Unless you don't have a buffer, you don't need micro mesh.  1200, 1500, 2000, then Tripoli buff, then white diamond buff.  Works perfect.  Micro mesh works well but it is a more tedious process. 

[clintfaas]

Thanks, Aaron!  I wet sand all my calls finished with teak oil so that shouldn't be a problem figuring out.  I tried starting with thin CA then sanding back down to wood thinking that would fill the grain.  Am I misinformed on that? Also, does BLO dry up faster than teak?

[Wane]

Also this guy has his method of finishing that may be worth watching

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=yjzXpD08ozw

[HaMeR]

I use Aarons method to fill the grain. It simply works the best.  I've tried dry sanding then putting slow setting CA on some 400gr, turning the lathe on low RPMs, adding some sanding dust to the CA & working it in that way too. It works Purdy good but is a bit messier as the surface takes more work to get it back to where you'll want to be for the finishing stage. I start with thin CA & let it soak in on the 1st 2-3 coats. No accelerator as I don't want to compromise the base layer. I also like to put 6-8 coats on before knocking it back. Makes the sanding a little more forgiving to the burn thru. Then add as many coats on top of that as you like. 

>>    >> Got change?? 

[Wane]

I do  Aarons like method better myself as his video is where I learned  how to do CA. I don't do the BLO wet sand but I will when I get some but the video I posted just shows another method and the importance of sanding it out so you don't have any shinny spots left before buffing it out. I have tried wet sanding with a sanding sealer but what I have sets up to fast and makes a mess.

[JCurren]

I use the below link for finishing pens and it has worked pretty well for me. I used a similar technique on a couple grunt calls, but wet sanding is needed due to the diameter of the call and small ridges that develop.

[clintfaas]

Thanks for all the pointers guys!  Just a couple things I picked up on so far:  I'm not using a gentle enough application.  I think the suggestion to use the bags is causing me to get buildup in areas and probably too thin in others.  I need to fill grain.  I previously was not using accelerator.  I got some and one single coat drying with accelerator was MUCH smoother than my previous attempts.  I'm hoping to finish my pen in progress tomorrow.  I'll let you all know how it turns out!

[Aaron at Wingerts Woodworks]

Just go easy with the accelerator.  Doesn't take much.

BLO doesn't dry worth a hoot.  I can't stand it as a call finish, but it works great with CA.  A lot of pen turners will put a drop of BLO and a drop of CA on their applicator, as the BLO apparently helps cure the CA.  Just remember you're not pre-finishing with BLO, you're only using it to create a putty paste with the sanding dust your 600 or 800 paper creates.  It makes a gummy goop that you can work into the open grain and then wipe off.  I don't think it hurts to let it sit for a day or so but frankly I think you could probably go right from wet sanding to CA application and not suffer any ill effects with your CA finish.

One tip I didn't put in my CA how-to videos is using a couple very heavy coats of thin CA after I'm done laying down the bulk of my finish thickness in medium CA.  A heavy coat of thin or two really helps even out the highs and lows in the application of the medium.  It'll allow me to start wet sanding at 1500, whereas I'm starting at 1200 if I don't do it. 

[clintfaas]

I'll give that a shot Aaron.  Since thin is so, well, thin, do you just wet the paper towel a little with it?  I first tried it with the towels I had but it just seemed to soak it up.   Seems like with medium you can get a true drop. 

I also want to say thanks again to everyone for the input.  I had read a lot but after starting the specific questions came up. Never ceases to amaze me the wealth of knowledge and willingness to help here. Stand up group of guys for sure! 

[Rick Howard]

I tried plastic as an applicator but it went on too clumpy.  I can get smoother application with the viva towel.  I think the brand matters.  One brands thin is different than another's.  The timing in applying is different between them and throws me off. 

If the grain is pretty open I put a couple coats on then buff it back with 0000 steel wool.  Clean the surface throughly with accelerator on a towel.  Check to make sure the grain is filled and Repeat if needed.  Then proceed like normal.

 I don't buff it on a wheel anymore.   I have started using course then fine rubbing compound on a folded up paper towel to shine up.  You could use wax to take the shine one step further.

[Aaron at Wingerts Woodworks]

The thin will absorb through your towel in a hurry.  I should have clarified.  My technique is to fold up a big piece of a paper towel (6 or 7 folds for sure to get it good and thick) and just saturate it with CA.  More of a big squirt than drops, but perhaps the equivalent of 20 drops.  Work fast and be careful not to glue your finger to it because it will definitely soak through.  Then apply it fast in one direction, and it'll lay down a pretty thick coat of thin CA.  NO ACTIVATOR ON THIS STEP.  The thin stuff tends to dry "hot" so using activator on it can up the odds of clouding or even worse.

[clintfaas]

Okay, one more question.  When I'm sanding and it feels smooth I dry it off and see little shiny lines parallel to the direction of spin. This is just high points on the ca correct?  I just keep going until all these are gone right? That is the point I start worrying about sanding too much.