single and double reeds

[Ryan@roosagamecalls]

So I'd like to believe I'm average at tunning single reed calls and never cared for making a double reed call for the simple fact that you can get everything you need out of a single reed. So lo an behold a guy asked me to make him a double reed call. And what the customer wants customer gets. So my question is do I tune it as a single red and add the second and start tuning that one . I've looked at a few doubles in my collection and the second or top reed seams to be about 3/16 shorter. Do I start there . thanks for any help.

[dogcatcher]

This is where I differ from some callmakers, I do not care to make the double reed calls, and the customer is right, but he will have to find someone else to make it for him.  I give them the option of what I make, if they want something else, I have my list of who I recommend and I send them to someone else.  I might lose a customer, but so far about 95% of the time I am a good enough salesman that they change their mind.

Marvin

[Wade@WEBFoot]

I too am like Marvin.
I dont make a double reed.  I dont like them (like you), I dont use them, and I have not spent hardly any time trying to learn them.  Customers that cant live without a double reed, I just have to explain that I dont make double reeds, and try to help them get to someone that does make a good double reed. 

I have messed around with a double a little bit (couple hours one time) as I have a friend that just thinks he has to have a double reed.  Never got even close to something that I would consider good enough, and he didnt think much of it either.  I used that to show him, you dont just throw a second reed in there and voila have a good double reed call, as well to show him, I did not/do not have the knowledge to make a high quality double reed.  Some day, maybe Ill play with it more... but probably not.

For me, the last thing I want to do is make something Im not fully versed in, just to make a sale.  I imagine the back lash down the road would not be worth the short term profit of selling a call.

I too try and work with them to help them get better at calling so that they can run a single reed, and many times they will start their migration to a single reed right there and then to take advantage of the added range and capability.  But there are always those that want what they want, and thats all that they want.  And you cant fault em for that...  and thats when I try and make good recommendations for another call maker who does handle double reeds.

Good luck in what ever you decide.

[Ryan@roosagamecalls]

Thanks for the info fellas I think I'm going to have to pass on the sale. I am always looking for a new challenge but I just don't think a double reed is a challenge for me I know I'll just be trying to get it to sound like a single reed and become frustrated.

[Aaron at Wingerts Woodworks]

I agree with Marvin and Wade.  Learning on a double is not a great idea, and getting off a double and going to a single is a pretty good idea. 

The top reed is usually about 1/8" shorter than the bottom reed.  You can do both in .010" or do the top one in .014".  Use something dull like a big ballpoint pen, a rounded off tip of a finish nail or similar to dimple the top reed on a piece of wood.  You don't want to crack the reed at the dimple, so go easy.  The dimple will leave a little air between the two reeds so they don't stick together.  You can usually get away with a double reed on your single reed toneboard, but not always.  It can be fun to experiment.

[FS Custom Calls]

Double reeds are a different breed.  So many call makers offer the same call as either double or single.  That is not a true double.   Took me years to get a good double reed that I felt great about.  I blow on it on stage and in the field 90percent. ...and I always said they were for people who could not blow a call.  Pass on this one but make some shavings.  Might just be training wheels on a call is the one you been looking for

[Michael Ferguson]

Sorry to ask a question on someone else's post but can some of you guys give a little insight on what you like better about a single reed? I have ran both types at one time or another and I've never really had problems with either one. Just curious as to what makes you guys prefer a single reed.

[Jeff @ Mutt Calls]

With all respect due to the above comments, I do not see the hard issue with single vs. double reed calls?  If you make a killer single reed and it sounds good, placing another reed on top of it (adding the dimple) is not such a lift in my book [especially if a customer wants that]. I cannot see where there is a big learning curve with respect to making a single reed or double reed call.  Albeit, a single reed call does have more volume but a well made double reed call can ring as well. My humble opinion is that a double reed call makes a little better "sound" and is a bit easier to blow. 

Ryan, if you care to pursue the double reed option for your customer, please don't hesitate to contact me for help. I think I may be able to assist if you as long as you have a solid foundation on your single reed call design.

Again, this was intended with no disrespect to those who don't care for double reed calls.

Mutt

[Wade@WEBFoot]

Michael,
My feeling is that with a good single reed, a skilled operator can get everything a double reed can do, and more. Single reeds in my opinion just have way more range.

Once I was able to operate a single reed, I just could never get myself to use doubles anymore.  Always felt limited by the call.  The range just wasnt there.  At least in my eyes.

Jeff
No disrespect taken at all.  Everyone has their thing.  For me - the range and capability is not there with a double reed.  Sure there are some good ones out there and they are a marked improvement of the older doubles I grew up with. But even still I feel every double I have ever blown, has lacked compared to a single reed.  But thats just me.

[Ryan@roosagamecalls]

thanks for the offer Jeff i may take you up on that . it may be some thing to try in the future . i would like to be well rounded in call making.

[James Strickland]

I started out, and still only make double reed duck calls.  I'm actually about to start playing with single reeds so I can make them when asked and to see the difference between singles and doubles.  To answer a question in your original post, my reeds are typically the same length.  I don't cut the top reed shorter than the bottom reed as a rule.  I start with them the same length and, if needed when tuning, will shorten the top reed to get the sound I'm after.  I may also shorten the bottom reed if needed but I always start with trimming the top reed.  Like most other things in call making, there's no one way to make double reed calls.  It's going to be somewhat trial and error to get your reed setup to work the way you want with the rest of your call's dimensions.

[wingshooter]

There is a time and place for both I think. I like a single in wide open fields more range and a lot louder and when I'm hunting bayous and timber I prefer a double and in late season I prefer a double. It can get a little tricky tuning the second reed but when you get it you will love it jmo.

[R Marketti]

First, never doubt your call making skills.  Do what know and sounds good to you, then tinker with it.  I have a completing different tone board for my double reeds then my singles.  I went through the hard work to discover what it was that people wanted.  I then learned by asking them what makes a good call to you.  I asked guides, the weekend warrior, and the hardcore hunter that plays hookey from work because it's going to be cold and windy out, I asked all that I could. This is what I heard from the majority of them.  Double reeds should produce or achieve a call that is easier to blow in terms of rattle or rasp without sacrificing tone.  Two reeds when placed correctly on the tone board can produce more vibrations than a single without the correct air presentation.  My doubles run from top to bottom but a slightly deeper tone and with less use of the diaphragm. Thus targeting people beginners or pros that don't use the diaphragm. Depending on your style or belief of calling will all depend on the call people purchase.  My singles are pitched higher for the reason of more experienced callers can operate the call using better control of the diaphragm.  Air pushed differently through the call will be different for everyone in my opinion.  When you learn how to adjust air presentation into any call, you need to learn to can change the tone of the call to sound like multiple ducks.  I personally like to talk to the person that I am making a call for to get feedback.....hence that's why we make custom calls.  As long as people know how my calls sound and what they capable and what they can do, they pick from 2 models......thats it and design is the same.  What is custom for me is the material that the call is made out of.  I have on occasions modified calls to allow more or less air presented into the call....Customers expect the call to be consistent with what they see,but you always need to practice......it's an instrument.  Hope this helps......

[stumpjumper]

Sorry....single reeds have range and allow freedom of creating the entire spectrum of a ducks vocabulary at any volume.
Double reeds....a limited duck call with a crutch so that bad callers feel good about themselves.

STUMP

[Jeff @ Mutt Calls]

Double reeds....a limited duck call with a crutch so that bad callers feel good about themselves.
STUMP

  Interesting...