A little something different for a grunt call

[Ty Colvin]

So, I've been turning deer calls for a couple months now, and 2 days ago, I hit my whit's end with o-ring fittings. That coupled with the question of it's durability taking the call apart over and over with every adjustment made by the owner of the call led me to try something new. I've seen a post or two mention using threaded tenons but haven't seen anyone actually follow through.

I was extremely pleased with the outcome! Let me know what you guys think!!

[Lon @ First Flight Game Calls]

Looks great. Way to think outside the box.  Any problems expected? Maybe add a rubber washer so it can be tightened without stressing the wood much? Tough to do? Just thinking out loud.


                          Lon
                         

[Ty Colvin]

Looks great. Way to think outside the box.  Any problems expected? Maybe add a rubber washer so it can be tightened without stressing the wood much? Tough to do? Just thinking out loud.


                          Lon
                       

Thanks Lon! I've contemplated countless ways of doing this differently, you've got me doodling again 

[VECtor Calls]

What are your o-ring problems?  Getting them to give you a good fit?

If that is the case, I've fixed the problem by buying up about every o-ring size out there that's in the area of being right.  It makes a world of difference.

Order neoprene o-rings from McMaster Carr in 013, 014, 906 and 907.  That will give you a heck of a good start.  You won't like the price of the 900 series rings, but what I do is shoot for a cut that will fit 014, and if I'm a little off, I've got other options.

There are a few other sizes that will help you at the thicker end (past 907) from Lowes too.  If you need those Lowes numbers, I will have to look them up. 

I like what you're doing with the twist on, but I think you're going to have to make it out of something besides finished wood if you want it to last.  Too many little areas to break, and too many little areas of finished material to catch and stick.

Vince

[Ty Colvin]

What are your o-ring problems?  Getting them to give you a good fit?

If that is the case, I've fixed the problem by buying up about every o-ring size out there that's in the area of being right.  It makes a world of difference.

Order neoprene o-rings from McMaster Carr in 013, 014, 906 and 907.  That will give you a heck of a good start.  You won't like the price of the 900 series rings, but what I do is shoot for a cut that will fit 014, and if I'm a little off, I've got other options.

There are a few other sizes that will help you at the thicker end (past 907) from Lowes too.  If you need those Lowes numbers, I will have to look them up. 

I like what you're doing with the twist on, but I think you're going to have to make it out of something besides finished wood if you want it to last.  Too many little areas to break, and too many little areas of finished material to catch and stick.

Vince

Thanks for the advice Vince. You are probably right that it has mostly to do with the quality of o-ring. I've mostly just been using the ones that come from THO's kit. I've had several break just taking the call apart or taking the ring on or off to modify the cut.

I made one call for a customer last month, and the fit was absolutely perfect (in my mind anyway), not to difficult to get on, but just enough to pull the tube to full stretch without any movement between mouthpiece and stopper. One week later, he brought it back to me, mouthpiece cracked in 2 places, saying that he got frustrated trying to put it back together after adjusting the reed. I new exactly what he'd done, knocking the ring out of the fitted track, then trying to force it on anyway.

That made me second guess continuing to make calls in this fashion, simply because I and so many on this forum spend countless hours on these calls and want to provide a quality product for those they make them for.

I'm glad you mentioned McMaster, they get my money all the time! I will put in an order for some better rings and persist. Perhaps I will even try making a hybrid stopper piece that uses both, just to make sure the person using the call knows to twist and not just force it back into it.

[dogcatcher]

I new exactly what he'd done, knocking the ring out of the fitted track, then trying to force it on anyway.

Your O ring groove isn't deep enough or your O ring is a size too large.  The O ring should NOT come out of the groove without having to really work at getting it out of the groove. 

Marvin

[Ty Colvin]

Marvin, should the mouthpiece just slide on, or does it need a slight twist because I have yet to achieve a fit that was tight enough without a slight twist onto the stopper

[mmaloney]

Thats very nice.

[Ty Colvin]

Thats very nice.

Thank you!

[VECtor Calls]

The rings that come in the THO kit are high quality rings.  They are neoprene 013's I believe.

If you're breaking them that easily, your fit is way too tight, or the inside of your barrel is too rough, or both.

And like Marvin is saying, it sounds like your o-ring grooves are not deep enough.

Vince

[Ty Colvin]

The rings that come in the THO kit are high quality rings.  They are neoprene 013's I believe.

If you're breaking them that easily, your fit is way too tight, or the inside of your barrel is too rough, or both.

And like Marvin is saying, it sounds like your o-ring grooves are not deep enough.

Vince

Thanks Vince, I will keep at it.

[dogcatcher]

Marvin, should the mouthpiece just slide on, or does it need a slight twist because I have yet to achieve a fit that was tight enough without a slight twist onto the stopper

Before the O ring is fitted the tenon and hole should be a nice fit, easily slides in without any friction about less than the hole size1/128" would be "perfect".  The grooves are a little shallower than the thickness of the O ring, most O rings are 1/16" thick.  So a 3/64" deep groove with 1/64 of the O sticking above the wood of the tenon would be "perfect".  There is no such thing as "perfect" in wood working, we play with grenades and horseshoes.  The 1/64" of the O ring that is exposed gives you 1/32 when you figure it goes all the way around the tenon part.  This much of the exposed O ring in the groove and the size difference between hole and tenon will give you a snug fit, tight but easily removed with a slight twist. 

Now throw the measurements away, remember the grenade and horseshoes, try to get close, based not on the measurements but through experience of making the tenon, the hole and the O ring grooves over and over.   Get the grooves and test fit, if the hole is too tight, sand it a little to make it bigger.  Groove too deep, CA a thread in the groove, 2 wraps with a thread usually fixes it.  Tenon too small, trash it.    I also use 2 O rings, not one, using 2 O rings looks better, makes a better connection and looks more professional

Marvin

[Wane]

I don't know if it would work but when I was playing with the wrenched for cutting tenons I thought I can have someone make me a tool that is just for doing groove for the O rings. If your barrel is drilled the same size each time then a wrench style 1/16" thick tool that cuts a grove the same depth every time should work. I know wood is not all the same but it would give you a very good starting point. I just have not had time to try it yet, hunting season got in the way.

[VECtor Calls]

I don't know if it would work but when I was playing with the wrenched for cutting tenons I thought I can have someone make me a tool that is just for doing groove for the O rings. If your barrel is drilled the same size each time then a wrench style 1/16" thick tool that cuts a grove the same depth every time should work. I know wood is not all the same but it would give you a very good starting point. I just have not had time to try it yet, hunting season got in the way.

You can do it with a flat blade screw driver and a grinder pretty quickly.

Your wild card come in.....on how fast can you make the inside of the barrel smooth.  Can you do it every time, the same??.....nope, can't happen, even with the same wood every time. 

You can cut your grooves like this with this kind of tool though, and have a few different rings to choose from.

I measure my tenon, and I eye my grooves.....using a thin PSI parting tool.

Vince

[dogcatcher]

I don't know if it would work but when I was playing with the wrenched for cutting tenons I thought I can have someone make me a tool that is just for doing groove for the O rings. If your barrel is drilled the same size each time then a wrench style 1/16" thick tool that cuts a grove the same depth every time should work. I know wood is not all the same but it would give you a very good starting point. I just have not had time to try it yet, hunting season got in the way.

I believe a Irwin brand 3/8" spade bit is 1/16" wide, or at least pretty close.  It is what I use, I ground the point off, then ground the bit end to about a 60 degree angle.  It gives me the right width, the depth I need to cut I just eyeball it.  I probably could come up with a depth stop of some kind, just never saw the a personal need for it.   I think most people use a 1/16" parting tool and eyeball the depth, but there was no such thing back when I started so I made do with an old "converted" spade bit.

Most spade bits have good steel in them, just don't get it hot when you grind on them or I think you will lose the hardness of the bit.  If you know a carpenter, ask him to save the spade bits for you, if not the prices are so low, just buy one and convert it to a lathe cutting chisel.

Marvin