5/8" diameter tennon cutting tool

[BigB]

Curmudgeon brought up a question about a tennon making tool on Marvin's post about that doohicky thingamajiger he is making.  I also have been thinking about a tool to make perfect 5/8" diameter tennons for duck call inserts as well.

So, I enlisted a bit of help to do some research, and here are a few tool that we found that will cut a 5/8" dowel.  Does anybody have any experience with any of these things?  Any comments about them?

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?Offerings_ID=11055&TabSelect=Reviews

http://fisch-woodworking.com/tenonplugcutter.shtml

http://www.fine-tools.com/zapfenschneider.htm



Or maybe we can have these guys dream up something?? 
http://fisch-woodworking.com/customizedtooling.shtml


Brian

[Al_at_THO Game Calls]

Why not just use a 5/8" open end wrench or if you want to be able to clean the tennon up a bit, use a 17 MM open end wrench which will put you about 1/32 over and you just clean it up with some sand paper.   

Al @ THO 

[GN-1]

Brian,
   I looked at all of these methods a few years ago when I got started. I even got one of the tennon cutters and tried it. Bottom line is, if you will use the 5/8" wrench method you will be a lot happier. After a few you can get them perfect every time. Shawn

[dogcatcher]

I looked at the tenon and dowel cutters, but never tried it.  Couldn't justify the coin for them.  I think with a little work and along with another "toy" it might work.  But the "might work" may be a little bit tricky as to consistent success.

Shawn, how smooth was the tenon?  And did it cut easy or was it tough going?  I know on the easy part it would also depend on the wood, but going in on the end grain it appears it would be tough going even on softer wood.  Any comments on that ?

Marvin

[BigB]

Well, I am using the 5/8" wrench method currently.  And I was wandering if there was a better method out there.  Sometimes the wrench doesn't leave all that clean of a cut for me, and it's almost easier to size one part of the tennon with the wrench and use the lathe tools to cut the rest of the tennon to the desired diameter.  But when I do that, I almost always get high and low spots across the whole length of the tennon. 

I thought that I could get close to the diameter, say with a slightly oversized wrench, and then use a tool to get to a finished consistant surface with a clean up type of tool???  Maybe my clean up tool is a board with some sandpaper on it.

Brian

[builderone]

I use the wrench method. When I do it I do kinda what Brian was saying, but I leave it a little larger than I put the wrench back on and slide it down to even evering out. They have to be really sharp to get a good cut.
Chad

[Braz]

So that my tenon is flat and level, I use a square nose scraper as the last tool prior to sandpaper. Works well for me. But then, I use calipers and the scraper to get there. The wrench method never seems to work well. Maybe it's the way I have the wrench ground.

[Waccamaw Calls]

bottom line:
there is no short cut to quality work ...........

[Heirloom]

I use a "MODIFIED" wrench meathod myself. What I have done that makes life easier is to take some cheap calipers from Harbor frieght ($3.59) and weld them to the size I want for o-ring grooves. Then I grind the front edge to a 30 degree angle but just a bit shorter than the back and use it as i would the wrench. BUT, what I get is a tool that I can set over the place I want a tennon and let it cut a small "guide" groove. The groove is just the size I want for the tennon or o-ring. On tennons, I just turn it to the bottom of the groove and smooth them out. For o-rings, I basically just clean up the edges. Perfect fit. ;D

[dogcatcher]

You might look to see if you can find a Stanley dowel maker tool.  I think the model number is 70 or 77, I used to have one around here somewhere, but I have no idea as to where it is.  You line up the end of the piece of wood and it has cutters that grab and pull it into the machine as it cuts.  But it was expensive when new, and now it has become a collectors item.  So plan on dropping some coin on it.  Actually way more work than practicing the cutting of the tenons by hand.  I think repetition will be the best teacher of making uniform tenons.

[Al_at_THO Game Calls]

I agree with two points made here

BigB you are right, the wrench method sometimes leaves a lot to be desired in the "pretty" department.  OK if you are doing a glue up, but not so OK if the customer is going to pull it out and look at it.

And Bill - You are right, there is no substitute for quality work.

I always go over sized when I use the wrench method so I can sand and finish to final fit. 

What we need - is a wrench that is about 2 inches wide  - a big wide one that will cut the whole tenon in one stroke and leave it nice and clean with little clean up to do.

Maybe Marvin can whip something up?

To be honest, it does not sound like a hard thing to make.  A piece of 1 inch square steel stock the length you want.  Drill it out, close to the edge and then cut or file it to the final shape.  Drill a hole in the back side for a handle and go.  Cheap enough to replace when you need and it might just work -

Al

[Waccamaw Calls]

Alright, here's my Christmas Present for all of you.
I have the tennon cutter in 1/2, 5/8, & 3/4.
Hold on now, I use them to cut plugs for my whistles.
I experimented with the 5/8 several times as a toneboard cutter.
From the posts that I have read, folks have enough trouble now with the center hole (ditch), without adding more.
The average insert length is 4", be it on a blind mandrel or chuck, that's a lot hanging out unsupported.
Now to that add the length of the tennon cutter (3"+), the length of the jacob's chuck to hold it and the general just plain wobble in a midi tail stock when you drill at that length. You will get a bow at the cutting edge. It will be hardly visible to the eye, but when inserted into the barrel it will not be true. The resulting effort to make it true will take more time and eventually more that likely will cause you to scrap the insert!!!
Throw away a couple of 4" blocks of Blackwood and guess what happens to the checkbook.

The wrench method, wth the block supported at both ends can't be beat. I find that my 5/8 open end is juat a tad too large, which is perfect. Once the tennon is sized, a touch with sandpaper or a file brings it in.

Three guys have contributed to my making the perfect insert everytime.
Al for the wrench.
Marc Ackerman for the oversize and reduce technique.
Marvin for teaching me to make an "O" ring grove cutter from a spade bit.

I find it hard to pass on secrets unless I know you, but it's Christmas and I feel good this morning.

Remember .........THERE IS NO SHORTCUT TO QUALITY.
The end factor is........ quality sells products and product sales enlarge the shop.

Bill

[GN-1]

Marvin,
   I had the same experience as Bill. The bit drills well enough even in end grain, but it will walk to one side or another. When you turn it around in a collet it is hard to true up. I guess I am lucky too, my 5/8" wrench is a bit oversize and I have learned that just a bit of 80 grit will get it dead on together with my usual sanding steps. The more of these you do the easier they get. You could not pop a wheelie the first time you got on a bike could you? ;D ;D ;D Shawn

[BigB]

Well, when I started this post, I was wandering if there was a better method out there to make a BETTER QUALITY end product.  I wasn't trying to shortcut quality.  I was trying to see if I could improve my quality since I was having a few issues with my wrench method. 

I made 3 more inserts last night, and before turning the tennon, I went and sharpened my 5/8" wrench really well.  When I got close to final diameter on the tennon, I used the sharpened 5/8" wrench to get a really nice and smooth diameter tennon all the way across the whole tennon.  I reallized the issue I was having with my wrench method was that it wasn't as sharp as it needed to be and that is what caused my frustration with it.  I now know to keep my wrench really sharp.  My 5/8" wrench is a hair oversized as well, and when I use my sandpaper to clean up the tennon, it is really close now to .625". ;D


Thanks to all that have posted to help me out.  I appreciate it.  I have learned a lot by all of the responses. ;D

Thanks again.
Brian

[Al_at_THO Game Calls]

I still think there is a way to make a tool that will cut the entire tennon all at once in one nice even pass.  I know it would be a big help to my call making.  The open end wrench is on the right track I think, now we just need to figure out how to make it wider.   

AL @ THO