THO Game Calls Forums
The Art of Handcrafting Custom Game Calls => General Call Making Discussions => Topic started by: SnwbrdrRm on April 07, 2011, 08:03:20 AM
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I have only used engine lathes and Cnc lathes to make calls thus far and wanted Somme input on what it would take to get a good but semi cheap machine in my garage. I like working with acrylic gut want to do wood as well.
I am selling some of my welding equipment so I may have some funds after new decoy and gear purchases.
New miller coolmate 3 and miller hi frequency arc starter if anyone is looking
Thanks,
Ryan
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At the lower end of the price spectrum, take a look at PSI's series of lathes. Great bang for the buck and they have a fairly loyal following for good reason. Jet and Delta will cost you a bit more, but are very good machines. I'd recommend spending the extra money and getting a variable speed lathe, whichever brand you choose.
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That's kind of a loaded question, but any name brand lathe ought to serve you well. Check out the Turncrafter, Rikon, Jet, and Delta lathes in the price range you're looking for, then go through the list comparing features. KC is right about the variable speed too. On a mini lathe I prefer 1 HP motors, but with proper technique and tool sharpening skills 3/4 HP motors will work fine. And all of the units pointed to so far have #2 Morse Tapers on the spindle and quill... to me, that's a big deal. When you do decide on a lathe, shop around to get the best price and shipping rates. I have a couple of good Delta outlets bookmarked if you decide to go in that direction, just send me a PM and I'll send you the links.
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Donnie's got a good point about the #2 taper. Along that same line, try to get one with a 1x8tpi spindle. Some of the cheaper brands like Shop Fox have 3/4x16tpi spindles and that can be a limiting factor for getting a wide range of accessories down the road.
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Here's a good selection of lathes to start looking at:
http://www.thogamecalls.com/PDF%20Tutorials/Some%20Current%20Mini%20Lathes%20On%20The%20Market.pdf
Marvin had a link somewhere on here that did a nice comparison of the specs on most all of the lathes. Maybe he still has that link.
Brian
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I looked, I have no idea of where that link is.
If your dollars can afford it, but the biggest you can afford, name brand, Jet or Delta. The Delta 46-460 is the top of the line of the mini/midi lathes. 1 HP, with variable speed and reverse. From there the sky and your funding is the limit.
Used lathes can be an option, but you have to know lathes before you buy used.
Marvin
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Are all of these solely wood working lathes? I know that small hardinges etc have cnc attachments that can be purchased for them pretty cheaply instead of purchasing as straight up cnc lathe...
thanks for all the insight above as well gentlemen!!!
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that Delta 460 looks like a sweet little machine but where I get caught up is that fact that I cannot machine any metalic components if someone asked me to.
I found a mini lathe at HF (http://www.harborfreight.com/7-inch-x-12-inch-precision-mini-lathe-93799.html) for almost the same price as the 460 and I could do metal, wood and acrylic plus I would have the capability of precision cutting and I could surely use wood turning tools on it still with the proper attachment...
thoughts?
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The dust from the wood will shorten the life of the circuit board on the HF metal lathe. They are not sealed well enough to keep the fine sanding and saw dust out of them. I have a similar metal lathe, and I have to keep it covered up or I will have to buy a new circuit board, again. I would imagine if I tried to turn wood on it, I would be buying circuit boards about once a year. In an ideal world, you would have 2 lathes, one metal and one wood. In my world I have 3 metal lathes, 5 wood lathes. Most do not get used very often, 2 are really better suited for display, but I still use them.
Just as a side note, in my opinion CNC will only be of any great use after you have your design and if you are going into production of thousands per year. You will have to have a pretty good reputation for great sounding calls before that time will come.
Marvin
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The dust from the wood will shorten the life of the circuit board on the HF metal lathe. They are not sealed well enough to keep the fine sanding and saw dust out of them. I have a similar metal lathe, and I have to keep it covered up or I will have to buy a new circuit board, again. I would imagine if I tried to turn wood on it, I would be buying circuit boards about once a year. In an ideal world, you would have 2 lathes, one metal and one wood. In my world I have 3 metal lathes, 5 wood lathes. Most do not get used very often, 2 are really better suited for display, but I still use them.
Just as a side note, in my opinion CNC will only be of any great use after you have your design and if you are going into production of thousands per year. You will have to have a pretty good reputation for great sounding calls before that time will come.
What about acrylic? I will most likely will be doing more acrylic than wood? How do you keep your unit covered up? I really want am metal lathe so I can do any metal machining that may come my way and also do calls....
Marvin
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I only do an acrylic call about once a year, and I make it on the wood lathe.
Marvin
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Done correctly, acrylic makes ribbons, not dust.
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So everyone is saying that delta and jet are the best I see....what one is the better of the 2? I like the delta that has the option for the bed extension, probably will never need it beyond call making though...
Thanks,
Ryan
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Never had a Delta, but have had two Jet's and they are awesome, well worth the money. I am not not sure but I bet you can get a bed extension for a Jet too. :2:
Jason
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It is like Ford, Dodge and Chevy. Pick one and hope you are happy with it. They all were made in China, and possible in that same factory.
Marvin
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I do have the bed extension and wouldn't want to turn without it. Just makes it so nice being able to get the tailstock outta the way.
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What will I need to get turning on calls after I order a lathe?
The delta 46-460 comes with the following in the box:
12-1/2-in Variable-Speed Midi Lathe - 46-460
6-in Tool Rest
10-in Tool Rest
Tool Rest Base
3-in Chrome Face Plate
Spur Center
Live Center
Knockout Bar
Wrenches
may save me a little money lol....
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Also curious if I can possibly get something going between a lathe and tools for under $700???
I don't have to get the top of the line lathe, I did see the RIKON 70-100 12-by-16-Inch for $369 with free shipping...
I want something good to turn with but if the price isn't much more I would prefer to upgrade
Any input would be great,
Ryan
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Decent 4 jaw chuck/jaws: $130-200
Collet chuck: $90
Mandrels: budget $35 per diameter
Turning tools: Budget $150 for a basic selection at PSI's prices
I imagine if you add up the cost of the tools on most of our turning benches you're going to approach a couple thousand bucks. The lathe is a small investment compared to all the other stuff you'll find a need for.
The bed extension is nice but is by no means necessary. I've never had one and do not have the need for one. They are available for Jet as well as Delta. I agree that between Jet and Delta lathes, it is a Ford/Chevy debate. Either will do the job and do it well.
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Decent 4 jaw chuck/jaws: $130-200
Collet chuck: $90
Mandrels: budget $35 per diameter
Turning tools: Budget $150 for a basic selection at PSI's prices
I imagine if you add up the cost of the tools on most of our turning benches you're going to approach a couple thousand bucks. The lathe is a small investment compared to all the other stuff you'll find a need for.
The bed extension is nice but is by no means necessary. I've never had one and do not have the need for one. They are available for Jet as well as Delta. I agree that between Jet and Delta lathes, it is a Ford/Chevy debate. Either will do the job and do it well.
KC speaks he truth... all of those accessories, sandpaper, finishes, and LOTS OF OTHER GOODIES are going to blow the first couple dozen drafts of your "start-up" budget straight to Haties. You don't buy all those things you want all at once though. Think of it as a collection of stuff that you'll build up over time. It took me 6 years to get all of the things I ever wanted, yet I have another bucket list of things I want to get eventually... and I'm a minimalist by nature. Woodturning is a bottomless pit, so for now just figure out what you want to turn and the tools that will require, and start there. On the upside, with the tools and accessories you need to make friction calls (plus a bowl gouge), you can also turn bowls, boxes, and a lot of other cool things.
just for giggles, my start-up list would go something like this:
12" swing lathe (Rikon, Delta, or jet)
4 Jaw chuck (Barracuda 2 or Nova G3) tip - the Barracuda 2 comes with several jaw sets, the G3 comes with just 1 set
1 each of the following chisels-
1/8" or 3/16" parting tool
3/4" roughing gouge
1/2" spindle gouge
1/2" or 3/4" skew
3/4" square end scraper
3/4" round nose scraper
3/8" bowl gouge
8" slow speed grinder
Wolverine style sharpening system
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So to keep this cheaper would I be better off getting the Rinkon since it has a bigger swing and tenth and is $200 cheaper or stick with a delta or jet and pay a little more.
Im not gonna go crazy with woodwork...probably just wood and acrylic calls so I am not wanting to kill the wallet...I am still considering a mini metal lathe as a dual purpose machine I would also be able to make accurate cuts and bore if I wanted to taper the insides etc...
I did notice the biggest thing between the Rinkon and Jet to the Delta 46-460 is that the Delta offers a 1hp motor and the others are either a half or 3/4 horse...not sure how much power I really need for call making in this instance...the lower hp models are also cheaper
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1/2 hp will get most callmaking tasks done without problems. I have a 3/4 hp Jet and have never wished I had more power.
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1/2 hp will get most callmaking tasks done without problems. I have a 3/4 hp Jet and have never wished I had more power.
If 1/2hp is good and 3/4 better then: I can get a Jet 1/2 hp for about $400...or I can upgrade some something bigger at 3/4 hp for a little more...
man I am so anal about picking the best thing for the price it is driving me nuts lol...
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...man I am so anal about picking the best thing for the price it is driving me nuts lol...
Us too. :stickman1: Just buy something for goodness sake. :rofl:
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...man I am so anal about picking the best thing for the price it is driving me nuts lol...
Us too. :stickman1: Just buy something for goodness sake. :rofl:
:bigup: :rofl: :rofl:
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...man I am so anal about picking the best thing for the price it is driving me nuts lol...
Us too. :stickman1: Just buy something for goodness sake. :rofl:
If only it were that easy for me lol...I am still trying to get rid of some of my welding equipment to get this stuff!
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I just saw that right off the bat I can save $100 just by going down to the 3/4hp Delta 46-455 instead of the 1hp 460-460...I can even get the 1/2hp JET JML 1014I for $350 (the variable speed model jumps to $470)
I have also seen the mini metal lathes delivered for about $600 and they come with a 3" chuck as well (I can then do the acrylic and also metal if I do so choose) I figured I would also modify the tool post and use it as a guide like on the wood lathes (may be a bit unsafe lol)
Also while my mind is wandering...I could convert the metal lathe to a small cnc machine after some more and a little more money lol....
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Wish I had some of those machinist tools and talents you speak of.
Can't offer much advice on the metal lathes you're talking about, but that little $350 Jet would serve you really well for wood and for acrylic work and as far as callmaking goes you'd never outgrow it.
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Wish I had some of those machinist tools and talents you speak of.
Can't offer much advice on the metal lathes you're talking about, but that little $350 Jet would serve you really well for wood and for acrylic work and as far as callmaking goes you'd never outgrow it.
thanks for the advice, I would probably not be turning anything other than duck or goose calls honestly, that is why a small metal working lathe appeals to me as I can make small products on it should I need to.
Also, with the metal lathe, the cross slide allows for accurate cuts to be made prior to pressing on bands etc...I understand that turning on a wood lathe is an art but its hard for me to not think of accuracy as a machinist lol...it must be tough to get a .0005 or .001" press fit on those call bands, I presume most just glue them on and keep em snug that way lol
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Dogcatcher tried to tell you the reasons a metal lathe isn't a good idea, but you do what you want to. :surrender:
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Dogcatcher tried to tell you the reasons a metal lathe isn't a good idea, but you do what you want to. :surrender:
I know I know...but he was speaking of wood hurting the lathe, is it the same if I plan to do acrylic and wood now and again???
Yuba City huh? I grew up in Redding before I got stationed in NJ....small world!
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Redding is where I was born and raised. Still have a cabin up near Burney.
If you want to do metal work, get a metal lathe. If you want to turn game calls, get a wood lathe. The two are not compatible. You don't need the precision doing wood work that you need doing metal work. Wood moves after you are finished and metal doesn't. You need to deal with the two different media totally differently. If you don't want want to listen to the folks and their opinions, fine, but don't come back here later and complain about not being able to do what you want to do.
Remember, for game calls, use a wood lathe. PERIOD!
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For a metal lathe you should find an old one that runs off of belts and pulleys, no electronics to get screwed up by dust. Also no gear, no gear boxes, nothing except for a shaft through the headstock, nothing that can collect dust, wood chips etc and gum up the works. Be prepared for headaches, frustrations, pieces not being squared, excessive run out and other problems.
Marvin
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Redding is where I was born and raised. Still have a cabin up near Burney.
If you want to do metal work, get a metal lathe. If you want to turn game calls, get a wood lathe. The two are not compatible. You don't need the precision doing wood work that you need doing metal work. Wood moves after you are finished and metal doesn't. You need to deal with the two different media totally differently. If you don't want want to listen to the folks and their opinions, fine, but don't come back here later and complain about not being able to do what you want to do.
Remember, for game calls, use a wood lathe. PERIOD!
Same as me huh, I was born in Redding but grew up in Anderson, my whole family lives there still minus one of my younger brothers who is in Vegas and about to get stationed in Alaska.
I fully understand what you are saying about turning wood on a metal lathe and that is why I asked about acrylic, if it were to be considered the same? I know acrylic has actual shavings and can still possibly gum stuff up but different than wood right? Like I said, I planned on doing mostly acrylic but some wood here and there..
I take into consideration what everyone is saying and I do appreciate all the earned advice.
Thanks,
Ryan
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Ryan something you also should really consider as a new callmaker:
Acrylic is expensive. Very expensive. Well over a dollar an inch. And if you're like many of us it'll take probably a hundred or more calls before you get good enough to make a call that is truly something that people will want to buy. That's a lot of cash outlay for little or no financial return. Due to its very high price and difficulty of use, acrylic is not a material that you want to learn to make calls on until you're a very good turner and until you have really figured out what it takes to get what sounds out of a call. My advice would be to do that learning with wood. Cheap wood at that. Because you're probably going to be using a lot of it up.
I'll be very honest and tell you that for what I spent on acrylic BEFORE MY DUCK CALLS SOUNDED EVEN CLOSE TO DECENT I could have easily bought a 2nd Jet 1220vs lathe. Easily.
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Kind of funny you say that KC, I have a box of acrylic that I'm saving for duck calls. I wasted a couple pieces now I want to get it down on some maple first. Then maybe delrin.
Snw
I've never tried turning a call on a metal lathe, but I've eyeballed the little ones at harbor freight. They seem pretty slppy. I'm sure they will do a lot of stuff, but I don't think they will hold the .0005 tolerance you're thinking of. try moving some of the slides around in the store, kind of sloppy and jumpy. I think by the time you bought tooling, vises, jaws, centers, blocks, etc. You'd spend twice as much. I would love to own a decent bridgeport or similar but the cost is just silly for what I want to do. And turning a mini-metal lathe into a cnc (from what I've read) is a hobby all its own. I always liked running lathes and mills, cnc and conventional, but for callmaking you'd be better off with a wood lathe aNd a nice drill press.
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Good point about the price differences between wood and acrylic....man I sure hope not to have to turn 100 calls before I come up with something I like lol....
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I cannot find the $350 Jet 1/2hp anymore for that price, they are about $400 now just with a quick look so if I got one I would just pay the extra $50 and get the Delta 3/4 46-455 for $450 delivered...wish I could find a used one!
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....man I sure hope not to have to turn 100 calls before I come up with something I like lol....
If you're like most callmakers and you go about it the honest way, I'd count on it. :yes: Making a duck call that will please the vast majority of the duck call blowing population is a real feat. Making one that pleases a buddy or two is a lot easier I've found.
Check Toolnut for the price of the lathe. The guys on the sawmill creek forum absolutely swear by that guy and his service and prices. I believe you have to call him for prices.
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....man I sure hope not to have to turn 100 calls before I come up with something I like lol....
If you're like most callmakers and you go about it the honest way, I'd count on it. :yes: Making a duck call that will please the vast majority of the duck call blowing population is a real feat. Making one that pleases a buddy or two is a lot easier I've found.
Check Toolnut for the price of the lathe. The guys on the sawmill creek forum absolutely swear by that guy and his service and prices. I believe you have to call him for prices.
I did see the 46-460 on there but will have to call for the other 455 I suppose....thanks for the info!