THO Game Calls Forums
The Art of Handcrafting Custom Game Calls => Handcrafting Custom Duck Calls => Duck & Goose Call Making Tutorials => Topic started by: Braz on November 02, 2009, 09:00:33 PM
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Hey, I hear you duck call makers talking about these different kinds of tone boards all the time. How about someone posting up some real clear pictues of the two different kinds so those of us that are ignorant will know what the heck you are talking about. Thanks. I think maybe I'll even make it a sticky. And if there are more than two, post those up too.
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After I posted this, today, Blackfalcon sent me this PM. I asked him if I could post it and he said sure. I think it is a very good start on this discussion. Now we need to see some others join in the discussion and get some pictures up.
Thanks to Dave for this very interesting read
Braz, Saw your post about duck call tone boards, and there are more than two styles. I have looked around on the net and haven't come across many pictures of inserts yet,,but can post a link for you to look at. The earliest duck calls used a tongue pincher style, patented by Elam Fisher, also BGI produced a similar call.They were a lot like crow calls in design. Next development was the early Illinois style, a flat tone board and a cork was used to hold the reed in place, basically shaped like a bottle stopper cork cut in half or third. From there, it evolved to the Reelfoot or Louisiana style call, where the cork was replaced by a wooden wedge, shaped about the same as the cork from the Illinois style, you would place the wedge on top of the tone board and reed and push it into the barrel to hold everything in place. These types of calls you could adjust the tone by moving the reed without having to cut it. The Cajun call makers added their own modification by shaping the tone board with a twist in it to increase the raspy sound the call was able to produce, and to give it the bouncy squeal of a hen mallard with a crop full of rice.
Finally, the Arkansas tone board, a notch to hold a flat cork was cut into the insert, the reed is place on the call, the cork is inserted into the notch,holding the reed flat on the tone board, and then the reed is trimmed to tune the call. This is also referred to as a J-frame, and is the design used by modern call makers predominately. Some makers continue to use the Louisiana or Reelfoot style as it gives you a softer timber call sound and that was what they were taught.
http://www.ccaacalls.org/ccaaglossary.html#louisiana
Hope this helps,
Dave
When I asked him if it was OK to post, this is the post he sent. Has some additional info and another link.
That's fine Braz, if I have made any errors they will be corrected I'm sure,LOL,
I will try to get some pictures also later unless someone else does it first.
The history of duck call making is very interesting, we hear a lot of people complain a lot about copying these days, but it was the way they rolled back in the early days of duck call making. It is interesting how some of the early companies such as founded by Philip Olt contributed to the evolution of the modern duck call and even influenced the Louisiana and Cajun calls! Here is another tid-bit you might find interesting,,
http://www.wildfowlmag.com/destinations/WF_1007_08/index.html
Dave
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Here's another pic of the two different styles.
Arkansas style insert on the left Louisiana style insert on the right (from a duck call made by 9thinning)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2428/4073627261_44ecb99dec_b.jpg)
Brian
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Interesting post.
I'm seriously considering switching to the LA style for most of my future calls. Heres why.
The toneboard can be acrylic, regardless of the insert material.
You can use a router and jig to make the toneboard without having to fuss with the cork notch (you can use a larger bit)
You can swap toneboards and go from Timber to Open Water.
You can get a lot more range, tuning wise, because the tone channel Length is somewhat tunable, because you can move the wedge up and down the board.
You will never break the wedge like you can a cork notch (you may lose it, but the call is not ruined if you do).
I'm in the middle of pro-to typing a call with an aluminum gutsert (.5 ID .625 OD for the toneboard).
I'm still wondering why the Ark style is the dominate style for duck calls, but the LA style is for Goose calls.
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I'm still wondering why the Ark style is the dominate style for duck calls, but the LA style is for Goose calls.
In my pennies worth of useless information I think the Arkansas is used because the customer cannot screw it up as easy as they can the LA style. With the AR if they take the reed out to "look" at it it is hard to not put it back in the same way it came out. In the LA style, the variable of where the reed and the wedge is set can easily change the tone. You and I and everyone else knows that a hunter has to "play" with everything so they know how it works even when they have no idea of what they are doing. This is why I do not actively market my LA style varmint calls, I got totally fed up with having to "fix" something the hunter tried to "fix".
Marvin
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I'm still wondering why the Ark style is the dominate style for duck calls, but the LA style is for Goose calls.
In my pennies worth of useless information I think the Arkansas is used because the customer cannot screw it up as easy as they can the LA style. With the AR if they take the reed out to "look" at it it is hard to not put it back in the same way it came out. In the LA style, the variable of where the reed and the wedge is set can easily change the tone. You and I and everyone else knows that a hunter has to "play" with everything so they know how it works even when they have no idea of what they are doing. This is why I do not actively market my LA style varmint calls, I got totally fed up with having to "fix" something the hunter tried to "fix".
Marvin
Your probably right Marvin, I'd take .02 cents worth of your advice over a dollars worth of anyone elses. A lot of goose sets have a notched reed and/or a tab for the wedge. Maybe that would help ??? Just fussing around with the tools and tinkering with ideas.
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I have one guy that I have know for 35 years, I have "fixed" my calls that he has "fixed" for 35 years. I have discussed and cussed this issue with him ever so often, and he still has to "fix" it.
Tabs might work, but then all of my stuff would have to be changed. Easier to stay the way I have it.
Marvin
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I'm still wondering why the Ark style is the dominate style for duck calls, but the LA style is for Goose calls.
I don't claim to know anything about making calls, but I can use them. I have never used a LA Style that has anywhere near the tone, range, or just realism that a good AR style has. I believe the sound you get is the main reason why it dominates the duck call world.
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Good discussion. Dogcatcher is right. Both boards can be made to sound the same by using the same parameters. Its just a different way of holding the reed. A Reelfoot lake style sound board can be made to sound the same as the LA and the AK but here again is the tuning-tinkering issue. Reelfoot style can even be used for very short reed predator calls because the design allows for holding the reed very tightly.
9th
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A Reelfoot lake style duck call uses a wedge block to hold the reed tight when the assembly is pushed into the barrel.
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e90/ninthinning/120_2054.jpg)
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e90/ninthinning/120_2052.jpg)
The trick is to get the wedge block to grain match.
:taz:
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OK Lessons learned here are many. I have abandoned my plans to produce a LA style call.
Not having a cork notch makes them a bit easier to make with a pin router set up.
The wedge however is an additional piece to make and fit.
They are a PATA to tune !
My fingers start hurting after only a few minutes of fussing with them.
No jig I can make for positionling the reed actulay provides consistant results. They must be fussed with.
It's very difficult (for me at least) to get any real range out of a .5 toneboard. They can be tuned up or down, but it's hard to find the middle.
My fingers start hurting after only a few minutes of fussing with them.
The combination of an insert on a tennon makes the top end a bit long.
Live and learn....moving on now..
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Come on Richard, they are not that bad. Shoot me some photos of what you have and I think I know where the problem is. Key word is "think" and sometimes my thinker does not work.
Marvin
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Curmudgeon,
I use a jig to make 1/2" Louisiana style duck call sound boards. The jig takes 1/2" rod and you can make a lot of boards in a short time if your 1/2" rod is exactly 1/2". Here is a post using the jig.
http://thogamecallsforums.com/index.php/topic,846.0.html
You can also use Louisiana board for good predator call voice.
http://custompredatorcallassociation.com/forums/index.php?topic=222.0
For me the Louisiana style board is the easiest board style to tune.
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I don't claim to know anything about making calls, but I can use them. I have never used a LA Style that has anywhere near the tone, range, or just realism that a good AR style has. I believe the sound you get is the main reason why it dominates the duck call world.
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Wow you think so?
To me, there just is not any duck call that says duck more than a Louisiana style toneboard. Although i make, market and sell both styles. When you want realistic quacks however, Louisiana style is where its, due primarily to low ends produced by the less dense properties of a two part poured epoxy toneboard compared to denser properties of most callmaking type woods.
Arkansas styles made out of wood are extremely loud, raspy and signify a younger hen that hasn't been around very long. Consolidate that with the fact that acoustical reverb is horrific when hunting puddle ducks in enclosed pot holes surrounded by a treeline and you hold the understanding of my negative review.
I guess those large, deep end back forties when working ducks out in Arkansas however, one might need that little louder call that the Arkansas calls produce.
I just like a quieter, more mellow, low end quack that really instills confidence in the birds... i mean heck even homo sapiens put more value in the wisdom of the elderly than that of the young bucks, or at least i do....LOL
Chris
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I want to see the comparison of these two calls as well, great idea. By the way a few years back my son-in-law drove me right past the Yuba City exit sign. You can't hide here. :no:
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who is making the Lousiana tone board jigs?? I would like to mess around with one and see what happens!!!
Jon
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To my knowledge nobody is making them. They were made by I think quackassassin on CCO, but I don't believe he makes them anymore. With a lot of luck you might find a used one, but it is highly unlikely. More like impossible.
If you make a wood jig to split 1/2" dowels you can make a basic one yourself. The LA board is 1/2" and the wedge with a few degrees of angle on the wedge. Getting that degrees is the complicated part because it depends on your board length and wedge length to leave the correct tone channel opening.
Marvin
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Look under La. duck call makers and see A. Thibideaux, he makes the best. :yes:
BobbyB
cajun
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Look under La. duck call makers and see A. Thibideaux, he makes the best. :yes:
BobbyB
cajun
Hey smart move Couzan getting on this THO site. You will enjoy it very much. At the left top of the pages under your bobbyb name there are 3 headings that keep you up to date on new posts or comments on threads that you have made a reply.
Just click on "Show unread posts since last visit" or "Show new replies to your posts". I find these two features very helpful and use them daily.
Introduce yourself as a new member and let people know what your all about.