THO Game Calls Forums
The Art of Handcrafting Custom Game Calls => General Call Making Discussions => Topic started by: Brandon@LastRitesCustom on April 25, 2015, 01:54:09 AM
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Guys,
I like how easy Velvit oil is to apply on duck calls but I can't seem to get it to shine like I would like even after buffing. What is the best oil finish for getting the deep grain to pop but also giving a fairly glossy finish?
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Velvit oil is a wiping varnish, it contains oil, mineral spirits and varnish. I once looked at the MSDS sheet, but I forget how much varnish, but I am sure it is not a large percentage. The varnish is what builds up faster and gives you the varnish shine. I only use Velvit oil when I do not want a shine, if I want a nice shine I either use Watco Teak oil, Tru-Oil or sometimes mix up my own.
Search Google for an article by Frank Whiton on on gunstock finishes, his method is work, lots of work, but te end result is one of the finest looking finishes you can do. You can use oil finish to get a nice sheen to a high dollar gunstock look, all depends on how much work you want to invest in your calls.
Marvin
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I often use Teak Oil as the initial soak, wipe dry after 30 minutes and dry for 24 hrs. The Teak oil soak seals the inside of the call barrel. I usually do that twice and after the second coat is dry I buff lightly with OOOO steel wool and begin applying Tru Oil. 2-3 coats of Tru Oil will give you a nice gunstock type shine.
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Velvit oil is a wiping varnish, it contains oil, mineral spirits and varnish. I once looked at the MSDS sheet, but I forget how much varnish, but I am sure it is not a large percentage. The varnish is what builds up faster and gives you the varnish shine. I only use Velvit oil when I do not want a shine, if I want a nice shine I either use Watco Teak oil, Tru-Oil or sometimes mix up my own.
Search Google for an article by Frank Whiton on on gunstock finishes, his method is work, lots of work, but te end result is one of the finest looking finishes you can do. You can use oil finish to get a nice sheen to a high dollar gunstock look, all depends on how much work you want to invest in your calls.
Marvin
Thank you for the info. I'll look up the article.
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I often use Teak Oil as the initial soak, wipe dry after 30 minutes and dry for 24 hrs. The Teak oil soak seals the inside of the call barrel. I usually do that twice and after the second coat is dry I buff lightly with OOOO steel wool and begin applying Tru Oil. 2-3 coats of Tru Oil will give you a nice gunstock type shine.
Fred,
Do you apply the Try Oil while on the lathe? How long do you let dry b/w coats? Do you buff after your final coat?
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I apply the Tru Oil off the lathe. With a new bottle of oil you can get in a couple coats of oil a day. For the final coat thin the oil with a little mineral spirits. It will dry a little slower and level out better. No buffing required!
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It is absolutely possible to get a nice shine from a call soaked in Velvit oil. I do it on an almost daily basis. Higher density woods like cocobolo, blackwood and stabilized woods will shine up better than some of the softer domestic hardwoods. For instance, you're not going to get a hedge call very shiny with an oil finish that isn't a polymerizing oil like Tru Oil or Waterlox are. Multiple coats of Velvit will just turn gummy. Velvit oil is not intended as a finish that you can build up to a glossy thickness like some oils are. The key is in the density of the wood and the prep work. Sanding to at least 600 is necessary, and even finer will be of some benefit.
This call was sanded to 600, soaked in Velvit oil overnight, allowed to dry, then buffed with Tripoli and then white diamond. It is stabilized wood.
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh446/thekctermite/9525b1da-29ec-4394-88dd-356d5d0467a7.jpg) (http://s547.photobucket.com/user/thekctermite/media/9525b1da-29ec-4394-88dd-356d5d0467a7.jpg.html)
Here's about as glossy as you're going to get hedge (or walnut, cherry, or other domestics) with Velvit oil. This call was not buffed.
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh446/thekctermite/IMG_2409.jpg) (http://s547.photobucket.com/user/thekctermite/media/IMG_2409.jpg.html)
If you're looking for an oil finish that will build up more like a polyurethane-type finish, consider Tru Oil. It is far less durable and not all that appropriate for waterfowl calls in my opinion, but it'll shine nicely and is a relatively easy finish. In my opinion, if you're looking for high gloss and durability in the same finish you shouldn't be looking at oil finishes. Spar would be more appropriate.
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Stabilized woods has enough resins in it, that it will shine without any finish. A good buffing will shine the resin just like it will shine up any of the cast resins. Velvit oil does contain some polymerizing agents or commonly known as varnish just like all of the other wipe on oil varnish combinations. Check out the MSDS, it contains very little compared to the others like the teak oils, Tru-Oil or Danish oils. Be careful, all of those oil varnishes are not equal, some contain more oil, while some contain more varnish, while others are more mineral spirits. None will tell you what percentages or what specifics they contain, but by using the MSDS sheets, you can figure out what the mixtures are.
Read an article by Russ Fairfield about his "Finishing Secrets of Russ Fairfield. Almost every question you can think of has been answered in his articles about finishes.
Marvin
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I have some proprietary mixes that I craft but often use the Watco Teak oil on quite a bit of my calls with great satisfaction. As Aaron stated the densities of the wood are a huge factor in the equation as to how the finish responds during cure out.
Several coats of Teak Oil across the period of several days, on really dense woods, will provide you with a good satte finish. One application--> wait 30 minutes then wipe off excess --> wait 24 hours before new application. Stretch this out over the course of a few days and several apps and you will be pleased. Best to buff call after your final application with a loose knit buffing wheel to elevate the shine.
One other good finish, is to utilize the same Teak Oil for a couple of coats, then after a few days of curing apply a topical coat of Zinsser's oil based poly (satin). Makes for a very interesting looking finish unlike any other polys out there. worth a try. I love it!
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By the way Aaron, that's an awesome osage call. You know I love that species anyway. Looks GREAT man!!!
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(http://i1380.photobucket.com/albums/ah185/LRCCalls/image.jpg3_zpsdsjuf62y.jpg) (http://s1380.photobucket.com/user/LRCCalls/media/image.jpg3_zpsdsjuf62y.jpg.html)
That's as shiny as I have been able to get w/ Velvit Oil.
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I have been soaking calls in marine Penofin lately followed up with a coat of wax. It's a Brazilian rosewood oil product used for boats and it seems to give the wood a little bit more shine than my teak oil finishes. A little spendy, but worth the try.
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Velvit oil WILL shine
Thuya (stabilized)
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k155/turkeyman1/Duck%20calls/Jack%20Lower%20Thuya%20CWF_zpsehe59ei2.jpg)
Hedge n coco
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k155/turkeyman1/Duck%20calls/Travis%20Raison%20X%20Cut%20Hedge%20Coco%20CWF_zpsoxwacyt9.jpg)
Coco
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k155/turkeyman1/Duck%20calls/Will%20Webb%20Coco%20Mld%20Grn%20CWF_zpslpnp4v5p.jpg)
STUMP
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How do you get that much shine? What grit do you wet sand to?
Velvit oil WILL shine
Thuya (stabilized)
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k155/turkeyman1/Duck%20calls/Jack%20Lower%20Thuya%20CWF_zpsehe59ei2.jpg)
Hedge n coco
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k155/turkeyman1/Duck%20calls/Travis%20Raison%20X%20Cut%20Hedge%20Coco%20CWF_zpsoxwacyt9.jpg)
Coco
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k155/turkeyman1/Duck%20calls/Will%20Webb%20Coco%20Mld%20Grn%20CWF_zpslpnp4v5p.jpg)
STUMP
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No reason to wet sand a wood call. You can wet sand a wood call with the oil to create a grain filling slurry on open grained woods. I'll sometimes do that before soaking in oil overnight.
Can't speak for Stump, but I normally sand my oiled calls to 600 or 800 prior to oiling. If I do a grain fill by wet sanding with oil I do it with 600 or 800 grit usually. Sometimes I'll go as fine as 1200 but I don't usually see a lot of benefit from it on a wood call. Buffing will pop the shine quite nicely.
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No reason to wet sand a wood call. You can wet sand a wood call with the oil to create a grain filling slurry on open grained woods. I'll sometimes do that before soaking in oil overnight.
Can't speak for Stump, but I normally sand my oiled calls to 600 or 800 prior to oiling. If I do a grain fill by wet sanding with oil I do it with 600 or 800 grit usually. Sometimes I'll go as fine as 1200 but I don't usually see a lot of benefit from it on a wood call. Buffing will pop the shine quite nicely.
Just found this thread. New to using Tru-Oil as a finish. So would 4-6 coats of Tru-Oil be good? Is buffing a must or can you just run with the 4-6 coats?
Number of coats depends on the porosity and density of the wood. For cedar I've found that the first two coats almost always soak in, so it takes more coats to build a finish and five or six coats are needed. For hard/dense woods like osage you can get away with three coats most of the time. On average, four coats???
I see no benefit at all to buffing Tru Oil. If each coat is buffed with 0000 steel wool after drying, the final coat should end up being glass smooth.
I see you finally decided that buffing is beneficial. But I still don't agree using with using the 0000 steel wool, . 0000 steel wool is like sanding with 400 grit sandpaper.
Marvin
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How do you get that much shine? What grit do you wet sand to?
The calls in question were sanded simply to 1000 grit.
I and others have shared photos to verify that it is possible to get a shine with Velvit oil. Read the instructions on the can, follow them and you have your answer.
STUMP
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How do you get that much shine? What grit do you wet sand to?
The calls in question were sanded simply to 1000 grit.
I and others have shared photos to verify that it is possible to get a shine with Velvit oil. Read the instructions on the can, follow them and you have your answer.
STUMP
Will do. Thank you sir & very nice finishes on those calls.
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There are 3 videos on buffing on the Beall Tool site, here is the first one. https://youtu.be/5oulHXWmIrI
After watching the Beall site videos you will realize that you can get the shine without any finish, but in my opinion that s not satisfactory. Never buff before the finish has cured,you can buff the finish off. And you can not apply finish after you have buffed, the buffing compounds are made using a wax/tallow mix and it will seal bare wood.
If you read info from the 2 sources I mentioned you will already know know that.
Finishes are not rocket science, but they are not easy, there is no such thing as a a quick and easy finish for all woods. But most woods can be finished with oil type finishes. But no good finish will end if it didn't start with a good sanding.
Marvin
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How do you get that much shine? What grit do you wet sand to?
The calls in question were sanded simply to 1000 grit.
I and others have shared photos to verify that it is possible to get a shine with Velvit oil. Read the instructions on the can, follow them and you have your answer.
STUMP
Will do. Thank you sir & very nice finishes on those calls.
That's right. Much like Stump, i sand to 1000-1500. Pending wood I'm using. Apply oil, buff on lathe. Brings it up quite nicely.
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Instructions off of the website.
http://www.velvitproducts.com/details_velvitoil.html
Application
Apply Velvit Oil to the wood surfaces, leave it penetrate 30 to 45 minutes. If it starts to dry out, apply more Velvit Oil, but keep the surface wet at least 30 minutes. Once it has penetrated for at least 30 minutes, start to wet sand using 320 to 400 grit wet/dry sandpaper. The sanding action creates a paste that fills the pores of the wood. Take a soft cloth and wipe off the excess. Leave it dry 24 hours. Nothing else need be applied over it.
Maintenance
Only pure Lemon Oil is recommended for polishing. Silicone or wax oils make wood susceptible to water spotting and are affected by ultraviolet light causing darkening of finish with age.
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No reason to wet sand a wood call. You can wet sand a wood call with the oil to create a grain filling slurry on open grained woods. I'll sometimes do that before soaking in oil overnight.
Can't speak for Stump, but I normally sand my oiled calls to 600 or 800 prior to oiling. If I do a grain fill by wet sanding with oil I do it with 600 or 800 grit usually. Sometimes I'll go as fine as 1200 but I don't usually see a lot of benefit from it on a wood call. Buffing will pop the shine quite nicely.
Just found this thread. New to using Tru-Oil as a finish. So would 4-6 coats of Tru-Oil be good? Is buffing a must or can you just run with the 4-6 coats?
Number of coats depends on the porosity and density of the wood. For cedar I've found that the first two coats almost always soak in, so it takes more coats to build a finish and five or six coats are needed. For hard/dense woods like osage you can get away with three coats most of the time. On average, four coats???
I see no benefit at all to buffing Tru Oil. If each coat is buffed with 0000 steel wool after drying, the final coat should end up being glass smooth.
I see you finally decided that buffing is beneficial. But I still don't agree using with using the 0000 steel wool, . 0000 steel wool is like sanding with 400 grit sandpaper.
Marvin
Huh? Did I miss something Marvin? You've dug up a three year old post where I describe my method for finishing with TruOil, which includes smoothing with 0000 steel wool, and seem to be comparing it to a post I made on this thread describing how I buff Velvit oil finished calls with a Beall wheel system as though I'm somehow contradicting myself...Which I'm not. Tru Oil and Velvit Oil are two very different finishes and I go about them very differently.
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One other thing I have found is the higher the RPM on the lathe the better the finish comes out using steel wool 0000. And yes you have to watch not to burn thru the finish and so on and so forth.
Larry
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Ok, I'll get in the pool!!! A few years back I became the proud owner of a Wingert Whistle! Osage orange with a Velvit Oil finish.
Ever since then, there has been a can of Velvit Oil on my bench. After monkeying around with it, I have been able to achieve a similar finish that Ron(Stump) has on his calls, even on Hedge!!! CA for the mantle, and Velvit for the lanyard! :2: Kitch