THO Game Calls Forums
The Art of Handcrafting Custom Game Calls => Handcrafting Custom Goose Calls => Topic started by: Fowl Mood on December 30, 2013, 12:29:04 PM
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There are so many sets of guts between Web Foot and Shell Creek along with several others that I don't even know about yet. So if you had to make a goose call and could pick a set of guts, what would you use? I know that lengths and bores will impact how a call sounds and I'm not looking for the answers on that end, just curious to hear what some people's favorites are or least favorites are if anyone is willing to share.
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Favorite, or easiest for the end user to master?
I like the original Shell Creeks a lot for me.
Putting a call out for folks that's easy to run, I like shaving down an Echo set.
Vince
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I'm just looking for opinions on all of it Vince! I've heard good things about the Shell Creek originals as well so they are on my radar. I personally haven't done anything with short reeds except for a few SR1's from Web Foot and have not found any combination of barrel and exhaust that I think works well and I am planning to try some stuff moving forward. What bore are the Echos? I have toyed with just buying the guts as well, but you can't get any details on the website so I wasn't sure if they were a .619 or a .625.
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This question pops up off and on. It is truly a loaded question. There are so many variables to consider. The end user of your product is what you should keep in mind. I would invest in several different gut sets and start sticking them into your calls. Tune them up and see what does and doesn't work with your call dimensions. Once you find a gut that is close, start monkeying with the call dimensions. Especially the inside bore of your mouthpiece. This will effect your sound and playability the most. Exhaust length will play into this some, but not as much.
Another option is to get a set of guts and start making calls until something works with the gut. I have heard that there is no bad set of guts, only bad tune jobs. Not sure if this is true, because I have had guts that just wont play. However, it could have been my call dimensions causing the problem.
Here is a set of dimensions that are a good starting point for Wade's SR-1 gut. This gut is probably one of the easiest for beginners to play, given a good call dimension. Also, with some tweaking it can be a really nice gut.
Barrel length approx. 3" and exhaust approx. 3" (w/ about 3/4" of tennon for O rings)
Bore your exhaust to 5/8". you will find that the SR-1 is slightly larger than this, but some sand paper will make the gut fit.
Bore your barrel to 5/8" and then back bore that with 7/8" for approx. 1" then 3/4 for 1". This will give you a stepped inside bore dimension in the barrel. This is only a starting point. These lengths will need to be manipulated to get the sound and playability you desire, but it should get you close.
Hope this helps.
Chris
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I'm just looking for opinions on all of it Vince! I've heard good things about the Shell Creek originals as well so they are on my radar. I personally haven't done anything with short reeds except for a few SR1's from Web Foot and have not found any combination of barrel and exhaust that I think works well and I am planning to try some stuff moving forward. What bore are the Echos? I have toyed with just buying the guts as well, but you can't get any details on the website so I wasn't sure if they were a .619 or a .625.
Wade's SR1's work the same way as the Echos. His are the larger bore I believe. The Echo calls are for the smaller bore for sure.
Vince
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Just my :2: I love the shell creek but that's my op ion they work great for my dimensions an I agree with everyone here its what you like. Shave the reed a little as you go I think that makes some differens es also. Trust me I am no expert at all these guys know there stuff.
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If I had to pick one set of guts that most people can run it would be Webfoot's SR-1's. They have a very mild slope to the tone board and are easy to get most of the notes out of. A broken in set is even better. For more advanced callers a gut with a sharper angle and deeper tone channel will make even more goose sounds and will be louder.
My go to hunting call has a set of super broke in SR-1's in it. Runner up for me are Wade's red SR-11's, they run with my bore dimensions very well.
:2:
Doug
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I love the original shell creek guts as well and most all of my hunting calls have them in. They are extremely versatile and I have 3 different call lengths that I make, all with different bores and the original shell creek guts run great in all three calls. It is just a matter of finding the right way to tune up the guts with each call. I have also found that the SR-1's are excellent as well especially in a beginner call with a longer exhaust, my only suggestion with them is to remove the tuning posts on the back this allows more play in tuning them.
Corey
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Man, that's a tough call. I love the big hollow sound of the Victoria Honkers (Wade's SR1), and Wild Bill's original guts are awesome, but I think I'd have to go with Wade's SR-3. It has better adjustablility and vocabulary for a wider variety of geese (IMO) and has a great crack in a short exhause call.
I have a set that I built a while back that might fit the bill here, but I'm not sure that's what you're after :beer:
Bob
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As a gut designer and builder I still have to say the SR1 Gut Designed and built by Mr. J. Burns is the most versatile gut out there In My Own Opinion. That gut is seriously surprising and forgiving in any combo I throw at it. Surprisingly fast with a good crack. The only issue I find with this gut is tone quality I feel just a tad more low end is needed. Now saying that depending on exhaust design and good hands you can get that in there. Just like all the guts we build they all are different and work well in different barrel and insert lenghth and skill level. So you asked basicaly if you had one choice,,,for ease of use,sound quality and cost you cannot go wrong with MR BURNS SR1 GUT. Sold by many under the same part number SR1
Wild...
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I really like wades sr-09 guts they fit my 5/8 bore and with a little shaving on the reed I can get a mean low end and a nice high fast end that I really love and can control really well, I have also heard a lot of good things about shell creeks ice guts so I will have to try a set of those some time soon!
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Shell Creek, originals
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This question pops up off and on. It is truly a loaded question. There are so many variables to consider. The end user of your product is what you should keep in mind. I would invest in several different gut sets and start sticking them into your calls. Tune them up and see what does and doesn't work with your call dimensions. Once you find a gut that is close, start monkeying with the call dimensions. Especially the inside bore of your mouthpiece. This will effect your sound and playability the most. Exhaust length will play into this some, but not as much.
Another option is to get a set of guts and start making calls until something works with the gut. I have heard that there is no bad set of guts, only bad tune jobs. Not sure if this is true, because I have had guts that just wont play. However, it could have been my call dimensions causing the problem.
Here is a set of dimensions that are a good starting point for Wade's SR-1 gut. This gut is probably one of the easiest for beginners to play, given a good call dimension. Also, with some tweaking it can be a really nice gut.
Barrel length approx. 3" and exhaust approx. 3" (w/ about 3/4" of tennon for O rings)
Bore your exhaust to 5/8". you will find that the SR-1 is slightly larger than this, but some sand paper will make the gut fit.
Bore your barrel to 5/8" and then back bore that with 7/8" for approx. 1" then 3/4 for 1". This will give you a stepped inside bore dimension in the barrel. This is only a starting point. These lengths will need to be manipulated to get the sound and playability you desire, but it should get you close.
Hope this helps.
Chris
This is a good start with great descriptive information for folks. Very close to my actual short-reed dimensions.
So Chris, are you saying the overall length of the call assembled is 6 inches? Just to clear it up for me.
My barrels are step bored per your recommendations, but my exhaust end piece is less than 2.5".
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Nothing but Wades SR-11 for me. Love them!!!
Mutt
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Nothing but Wades SR-11 for me. Love them!!!
That goes double for me! I paired them with a KD10 reed from Shell Creek and I think I hit the jackpot when it comes to my own hunting calls
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Joe - Had to look at what I posted again to answer your question. :hysterical: No, the exhaust would only have 2.25 showing because 3/4 of your overall 3inches would be a tenon for O-rings. Does that clear it up? Also, the dimensions I gave are a starting point. The sound you want will determine final dimensions. My barrels are a bit shorter than three inches. I did do a call that is roughly 2.5 inches in total length assembled. The great thing about custom is that we can do what ever we want. Love this stuff.
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Ive always loved saunders reds. They have ran great in every call I put them in and are a breeze to tune. Break them in a bit and they are downright goose. Ive always wondered if they are Webfoots reds though?
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Joe - Had to look at what I posted again to answer your question. :hysterical: No, the exhaust would only have 2.25 showing because 3/4 of your overall 3inches would be a tenon for O-rings. Does that clear it up? Also, the dimensions I gave are a starting point. The sound you want will determine final dimensions. My barrels are a bit shorter than three inches. I did do a call that is roughly 2.5 inches in total length assembled. The great thing about custom is that we can do what ever we want. Love this stuff.
Thanks Chris. Great clarification to clear that up in my mind. Most of my short-reeds are about 5 3/8" of total assembled length, but I am still playing because I to love this stuff.
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How about they are Webfoot's reds and blues. Pretty sure if you were to compare, you may find some similarities, if not exact dimensions.
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Well there ya go. Could have fooled me. Of course it wouldn't be the first time :hysterical:
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Just a little clarification... in case anyone wants it.
I dont, and wont say, who makes the guts I carry, unless they are ones I personally make. The reason being... some of my vendors do not want to be known, and that was the only reason they would let me start carrying their guts back years ago. Some dont care, but I just apply the "I dont say" to all the guts I carry, so I dont slip up and say something that might upset a manufacturer sometime.
That being said... the ONLY guts that I make that I sell on my site are the SR101, SR102, and SR103. And the only reeds that are my design are the WCGR1, WCGR2, WCDR1, and WCDR2. I also make the guts for my own calls, but they are not available on the website. Only available with a call.
In addition... so many different places seem to use so many of the same guts, that I really dont even have a clue what all the different names some of these guts might go by. Ive heard rumor this gut or that gut is the same as this or that call makers "such n such" guts... but I cant verify it... since I dont have a set of what ever guts in hand. Im sure someone who knows the various guts, could figure out what is what... and I expect over time, people will. But its just not something I feel is good for me to advertise so I dont slip up and say something I shouldnt.
I guess the biggest thing out of all of this, is I shouldnt be getting credit for guts I didnt design or build... and shy of the SR101, 102, and 103 guts... I didnt design or build em. I know it doesnt clear the water a bunch... but I felt it kind of important people know I am not the manufacturer of most of my guts. I dont do any injection or cast molding here at all at the present time.
Cheers all!
Wade
[edit] in addition... some of the various guts I carry, I dont get reeds with, and pair the guts with reeds I carry. So Im sure that could confuse things a bit more since a gut might match but a reed might not.
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Wade,
You used to have a SR-7 gut, and I still have a few of them. I have been messing with them lately, and some are ending up on my lanyard. What's the closest thing you have to them now??
Thanks!
Doug
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Honestly, I dont really remember them well enough to have even a guess. They stick in my mind as a set of guts that wasnt really my style, so I know I didnt spend much time with them... which Im sure is not helping my memory.
I think youll find those guts on the echo website if youre wanting to get more.
Wade
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Another goose bump (LOL) B Hoover dug up for us.