THO Game Calls Forums

The Art of Handcrafting Custom Game Calls => Handcrafting Custom Goose Calls => Topic started by: lazyMlazyK on August 15, 2011, 10:22:22 PM

Title: Long Reed Insert?
Post by: lazyMlazyK on August 15, 2011, 10:22:22 PM
It seems to me all the calls I've seen on here have a set of short reed guts in them.  Does anybody make any long reed goose calls here?  I'm thinking about giving it a try soon (my brother-in-law wants me to make him a cocobolo long reed call).  Also, I cannot get any low end out of my echo guts.  Is there any to be had?  No matter how I tune it, I cannot find any low end in them.  Tips?
Title: Re: Long Reed Insert?
Post by: Jon @ JRwoods on August 16, 2011, 12:13:54 AM
Not sure on echos, have you tried another reed?  Shape of reed has a little to do with it.  Make sure the natural bend is up. 
Can't help with the long reed but I'm interested also.
Title: Re: Long Reed Insert?
Post by: Aaron at Wingerts Woodworks on August 16, 2011, 10:30:17 AM
Can't speak to a "long reed" goose call, as I haven't heard of that.  I'm no goose call expert at all but I only know of flutes and short reeds. 

Not being able to get a good low end on your Echo guts could be due to the configuration of the barrel or insert.  Have you tried various bore diameters and step drilling the internal dimensions differently from barrel to barrel?  Exhaust lengths and diameters?  Echo guts will run, but you're probably going to have to focus on the call itself once you have your guts set right. 
Title: Re: Long Reed Insert?
Post by: VECtor Calls on August 16, 2011, 10:46:46 AM
I don't have any problem getting all kinds of tones out of ECHO guts.  I don't know how much experience you have with short reed goose calls, but they don't run with just air.  There is a lot of hand work that goes into a goose call reaching all different types of notes and tones.

Parker
Title: Re: Long Reed Insert?
Post by: crowkiller on August 16, 2011, 11:23:48 AM
Most of my goose calls are long reed. What do you want to know?
  But they are all 4 piece inserts. Most guys shy away from 4 piece inserts for some reason.
 
Title: Re: Long Reed Insert?
Post by: lazyMlazyK on August 16, 2011, 12:28:36 PM
Crowkiller, could I see some pictures of your long reed inserts?  What makes them any different from, say, a coyote howler toneboard?
Title: Re: Long Reed Insert?
Post by: Aaron at Wingerts Woodworks on August 16, 2011, 03:43:30 PM
Looking forward to learning something I didn't know about goose calls and long reed setups!  I can't even begin to picture a 4 piece reed/toneboard setup so I'm definitely curious! 
Title: Re: Long Reed Insert?
Post by: Joe aka COLD @ J. A. Kolter Calls on August 17, 2011, 10:56:02 AM
Looking forward to learning something I didn't know about goose calls and long reed setups!  I can't even begin to picture a 4 piece reed/toneboard setup so I'm definitely curious! 
Basic long-reed goose call toneboard and wedge, also commonly called a conventional goose call.
I usually make a few of these yearly.  The custom milled 1/2" toneboards are ran through a shaper using a 3-wing 1/4" cutter.  A four piece set-up can consist of a thin wall .500 brass tube recessed into goose insert to prevent split out or in this case a friction fit toneboard, wedge, mylar reed with a
o-ring set-up.  I also use 1/2" retainer rings in some cases to prevent wedge misaligment.
Here's a custom Koa Classic model showing the gut set-up.
 (http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz205/callpics/KoaGooseCall02.jpg)
Title: Re: Long Reed Insert?
Post by: Aaron at Wingerts Woodworks on August 17, 2011, 05:14:42 PM
Thanks Joe.  I'd have never guessed that is a goose call from looking at just the toneboard and reed setup.  Shows the depth of my knowledge on goose calls, huh?!?!?!  Really neat looking call (and wood), that is for sure. 
Title: Re: Long Reed Insert?
Post by: lazyMlazyK on August 17, 2011, 05:44:49 PM
Thanks for that picture COLD  :clap: Any way we could twist your arm to get a close-up or two of the toneboard/reed setup?
Title: Re: Long Reed Insert?
Post by: Joe aka COLD @ J. A. Kolter Calls on August 17, 2011, 07:46:05 PM
Thanks for that picture COLD  :clap: Any way we could twist your arm to get a close-up or two of the toneboard/reed setup?
Yes, give me a little time as I'm moving a little slow from surgery yesterday.  I can show a pic of a loose walnut one with reed sitting on my bench.  I can then give a quick description of what's what and the basics of making a conventional goose call using this gut system. 
Title: Re: Long Reed Insert?
Post by: crowkiller on August 17, 2011, 08:02:56 PM
Well there you have it.
 Thanks joe for posting a pic.
Mine is slightly different but close enough.
 Joe that is a beautiful call.
Title: Re: Long Reed Insert?
Post by: VECtor Calls on August 17, 2011, 10:19:17 PM
 :up1:  Thanks for the picture COLD!  I'm looking forward to your further descriptions.  Its always cool to see all the different gut configurations that can make a goose call!

Parker
Title: Re: Long Reed Insert?
Post by: Joe aka COLD @ J. A. Kolter Calls on August 18, 2011, 11:07:11 AM
Here's a pic of the conventional long-reed goose call with parts.  The barrel finished size is 3.75" long with a step bore of 3/4" reduced to 5/8" at the mouthpiece end.  The insert finished size is 3.5" long with a straight 1/2" bore with step 17/32" bore at toneboard end.  To prevent split-out on the 3/4" insert end a 1/2" piece of thinwall 17/32" brass with 1/2" ID is glued in.  Most of mine I skip the brass sleeve and trust the wood I'm using will not split.  You can use a 1/2" external retainer ring or o-ring to hold the tuned position. The insert gut is 1/2" dowel stock 2 1/8" in length with a 1/4" slot cut milled by a 3 wing cutter.  The ramp is set approximately 3/8" to 1/2" at various angles for tuning.  The reed can be .010 or .014 mylar type A.  It is tapered narrow and dogeared.  Unlike the short-reed the reed extends approximately 5/8" past the hole slot in the ramp.
(http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz205/callpics/IMG_2141.jpg)
Title: Re: Long Reed Insert?
Post by: lazyMlazyK on August 18, 2011, 12:17:07 PM
WOW!  :bow:  :bow:  :2up: What an upstanding guy!  Thank you very much for unselfishly providing us with such detailed information!!  When I dive into this project, I'll have a LOT better chances of success now with all that you've offered here!  Thanks again!!!  :bigup:  :bigup:
Title: Re: Long Reed Insert?
Post by: Aaron at Wingerts Woodworks on August 18, 2011, 12:39:54 PM
Joe you're quickly becoming a real asset to the THO family and proving that you're a helpful guy as well as a knowledgeable call maker.   :bigup:  The craftsmanship is evident for sure.  Hope the surgery was nothing serious and all is ok on your end. 
Title: Re: Long Reed Insert?
Post by: tkopperl on August 18, 2011, 03:24:17 PM
Wow that is awesome! Never seen long reed goose call in person...  Thanks for the great pictures too!  Now I know you have already answered so many questions, but how in the world did you do those glue ups?  They are awesome!!!  I cant figure out how you were able to match them up so perfectly...
Title: Re: Long Reed Insert?
Post by: Joe aka COLD @ J. A. Kolter Calls on August 18, 2011, 03:44:50 PM
Wow that is awesome! Never seen long reed goose call in person...  Thanks for the great pictures too!  Now I know you have already answered so many questions, but how in the world did you do those glue ups?  They are awesome!!!  I cant figure out how you were able to match them up so perfectly...
Humm . . . I'm a laminating fool and keep trying new patterns all the time.  This is a simple one but it takes a lots of Titebond III glue.  You resaw 3/16" strips of light and dark colored woods, then laying flat you keep alternating the dark and light colors and glue them up.  The flat pieces must be wide enough to allow for several more saw kerf cuts the other direction, cutting more 3/16" wide strips.
Then you lay them flat again, but this time when you glue them you alternate each piece so a dark strip of wood is touching a lighter piece of wood.  Its a simple turn and stack glue up.  In the end you have a checkerboard effect, especially looking at the ends of the block.
Title: Re: Long Reed Insert?
Post by: Joe aka COLD @ J. A. Kolter Calls on August 18, 2011, 06:19:23 PM
Hey thanks.  I have no secrets in making custom calls.  We can only improve our craft, and in my case I'm still striving for better workmanship including the finish on my calls.  I had a follow-up this afternoon from surgery this Tuesday, everything looks ok.  I just need to go back in a month for a final check-up.
Title: Re: Long Reed Insert?
Post by: jcz on August 18, 2011, 09:28:30 PM
Very nice work Joe. Im impressed!! Not only with the glue up but also with your response in helping with the long reed set up.
Title: Re: Long Reed Insert?
Post by: VECtor Calls on August 18, 2011, 11:19:06 PM
Very cool!  Thanks for the detailed thoughts!  I really appreciate them! 

What is it about the long reed caller that's gotten the main stream goose hunter away from it?   :huh:  More tone variances achieved in a short reed I suppose?

Parker
Title: Re: Long Reed Insert?
Post by: Joe aka COLD @ J. A. Kolter Calls on August 19, 2011, 08:47:36 AM
Very cool!  Thanks for the detailed thoughts!  I really appreciate them! 

What is it about the long reed caller that's gotten the main stream goose hunter away from it?   :huh:  More tone variances achieved in a short reed I suppose?

Parker
You hit the nail on the head.  The short-reed can produce more variable sounds.  The conventional long-reed however has its place that's why I make a few in two different models each year.  Some folks cannot blow a short-reed so the long-reed is easier to use.  Both the goose flute and the long-reed have there own little corner of the call making world.
Title: Re: Long Reed Insert?
Post by: VECtor Calls on August 15, 2015, 12:38:54 AM
Bump for some great information.
Title: Re: Long Reed Insert?
Post by: BLKDOGS on August 16, 2015, 09:25:17 PM
Thanks for the bump on this and Joe thank you great info.
Title: Re: Long Reed Insert?
Post by: Jeff @ Mutt Calls on August 17, 2015, 06:24:05 AM
http://www.grassycreekcalls.com/Goose-Call-Makers-s/1819.htm

Grassy Creek has a similar set up as Mr. Kolter.  I'm sure Mr. Kolter's are hand made which is more appealing to me.  I have tried the guts from Grassy Creek and they are decent for a beginner and they make basic goose sounds.
Title: Re: Long Reed Insert?
Post by: rmartin on March 23, 2019, 09:17:15 PM
Great presentation of information for those just starting out.  I don't know why so many haven't seen a long reed goose call before.  I hadn't seen the short reed until just recently when I was just starting to look into making a goose call. All I have ever used is a Ken Martin Goose Call and all of his are long reed.  Actually pretty simple looking other than it has a 3 step system in the exhaust end of the call.  5/8" in barrel and goes from 1/2" down to 7/32 where the reed is held in what would be the cork notch. This is what I am going to try and do with one Im starting to work on.  Just need to get the proper forstner bits so I have a flat platform where it steps up to the larger bore.  Thanks again for showing your long reed, much easer to use the long reed for me for sure.