Molding guts

[Bob from Eames Custom Calls]

There was/is a great discussion going on in one of the other forums concerning when and if it's alright to mold a gut off of modified original, and whether or not you should seek permission before doing so. I'd love to hear what everyone has to say about this, not only for guts, but soundboards, turkey calls stuff, etc.

 Please keep this clean, any type of urination contest and I'll remove it

 What say ye?

 Bob

[Al_at_THO Game Calls]

I say no. 

Al @ THO

[Bob from Eames Custom Calls]

I say no. 

Al @ THO

 And I thought for sure you'd have a change of heart...

 Bob

[Jeff @ Mutt Calls]

Bob, I read and followed that same topic over there.  It is a good read if you have a minute to kill.  I say absolutely not, as well.  I hear what the guy was trying to say, but it still didn't "seem" right to me.

Mutt

[Black Timber Calls]

I say yes. As I said before, they are heavily modified, broke in, different wedge with even more mods to it. It is not anywhere close to the same gut. As it is many of the mainstream companies have a set of broke in guts in their lineup that are molded off one of their callers broke in sets and the majority of people are good with it because it isn't even close to the same gut and makes for a better product.

[Al_at_THO Game Calls]

Well, if you have heavily modified a set of guts, then why not just make your own set of guts?

You see, the problem lies in what one man calls "Heavily Modified" and in what another man calls "Heavily Modified".

One could actually be HEAVILY MODIFIED, and one could be just trimming the flashing off the original guts.

Don't think for one minute that guys don't do this kind of stuff all the time.   I used to make and sell hand made tone boards for predator calls.   They were made off three of my jigs.   I had one guy mold them, and sell them to a competing call making supply store.   He even went so far as to mold one of my acrylic call bodies.   

I had another call maker order one of each of my hand made tone boards, and then mold them for his line of calls.

Once you open the door, and condone this kind of thing, you will never get the door closed again.

You're young, and you haven't been around the block and beaten up by these big companies.   But I have a call right now being produced by Knight and Hale that is an exact molded copy of one of my original hand calls.   

I'll say it again, if you have heavily modified someone elses guts, then you have the skill to make your own.   Don't screw yourself or someone else by "cheating" and taking the easy way out.   In the end, no matter what you do, your calls will always be known for having someone elses modified guts in them, and you will lose customers because of it, and more than likely a lot of respect from some call makers, especially the one whose guts you molded.   

AL @ THO

[daren99]

I vote no basically to me, worst case you're using someone elses design and taking credit for it. Best case it's a gray area and I really wouldn't want my name associated with either.

Daren

[gooseforsupper]

To kill a goose with a call I made myself, with guts I made myself, really brings out the spirit of a true custom call.  They are rare nowadays, and  it's really a cool project to undertake.  Nothing like blowing a set of hand carved guts for the very first time and actually succeeding in tuning one up.

I guess if I really wanted to make money, I could mold up a set and have at it in the marketplace.   Then again, I don't know how to make money off of custom calls, I blow it all on wood and tools.....

[Black Timber Calls]

   Don't screw yourself or someone else by "cheating" and taking the easy way out.   In the end, no matter what you do, your calls will always be known for having someone elses modified guts in them, and you will lose customers because of it, and more than likely a lot of respect from some call makers, especially the one whose guts you molded.   

AL @ THO

I was with you until this. Guys have gained a name and sales for this. Look at grounds. He sells the crap out of TC guts because they are an exact replica of Kelly Powers broke in cluckers ecept for a different, harder material. Field Hudnall is molding his set of guts he broke in IDK whether they are cluckers or Zinks guts. So really I think the general public doesn't give a lick about it and actually gravitates towards it.
I am running this as a business, not a hobby, so I am trying to give the best possible sounding call at a reasonable price. I put over a year and a half on these guts breaking them in by use and modding the wedge. I don't have the money or resources to make my own guts and really it isn't economically sensible to make my own.

[Al_at_THO Game Calls]

there is nothing wrong with using someone elses guts.   

Using someone elses guts and calling them your own, weather you modify them or not, is well, probably not the best way to go.

And I run a business selling calls and call parts too.  Been at it for over 1o years now.   I know what goes into making a custom call.   I also know how it feels when someone or a company steals your hard work to make a buck, and I hope you never find out how that feels.   

AL @ THO

[dogcatcher]

Has someone told you this or did you measure these guts and came to that conclusion?  With most resins when molds are made the final product will not be an exact copy of the original.  The master has to be the correct size so the finished version will be the size that is desired.  Unless one of the parties involved told you that they molded the others product, you are just speculating, and this speculating can become libel.  Next you might have attorneys knocking at your door.

Marvin

[Black Timber Calls]

there is nothing wrong with using someone elses guts.   

Using someone elses guts and calling them your own, weather you modify them or not, is well, probably not the best way to go.

And I run a business selling calls and call parts too.  Been at it for over 1o years now.   I know what goes into making a custom call.   I also know how it feels when someone or a company steals your hard work to make a buck, and I hope you never find out how that feels.   

AL @ THO

I don't plan on calling them my own. Don't plan on selling to any other call makers. I just plan on using them in my calls because they make my product twice as good which is my ultimate goal for my customers. If anybody wants to know what they are I will tell them, they are a molded set of Flyway X guts and a modded wedge that I broke in on my contest call. I don't have any secrets. Just like Grounds doesn't keep it a secret that the TC's are a broke in version of a clucker

[Black Timber Calls]

Has someone told you this or did you measure these guts and came to that conclusion?  With most resins when molds are made the final product will not be an exact copy of the original.  The master has to be the correct size so the finished version will be the size that is desired.  Unless one of the parties involved told you that they molded the others product, you are just speculating, and this speculating can become libel.  Next you might have attorneys knocking at your door.

Marvin

And that is another thing that grounds boasts about his guts. They are MACHINED out of glass composite so that there is no shrinkage(which means they are exactly the same as the original set of Kelly Power broke in guts) and they can't break in any further.

[Al_at_THO Game Calls]

So if I understand you, you want to take someone elses guts, modify them, then have them molded, and then call them the other guys modified guts?

Clarify please.   Is that what you are planing on doing?

Al @ THO

[Black Timber Calls]

So if I understand you, you want to take someone elses guts, modify them, then have them molded, and then call them the other guys modified guts?

Clarify please.   Is that what you are planing on doing?

Al @ THO

What I plan on doing is doing pour molds of them myself along with an insert for my duck and goose calls(those of course are completely my design) I won't hide the fact that they are Flyway X's that are super broke in with a different and modified wedge, but I won't advertise the fact either. I think hiding it would be bad as your aren't giving any credit and advertising would be bad because you are using somebody elses name to get money. I plan on doing it just the way Triple crown guts are. They aren't advertised, but everybody who knows about them knows what they are